Options Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from June 22, 2020 Options

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Conversations with creators and thinkers who are charting the way forward in a tech-saturated society. Tech, community, video games, and whatever else is next.

Mondays 6 - 7pm (EDT) | On WFMU (Info) | 91.1, 90.1, 91.9 FM & wfmu.org
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Mon. Jul 6th, 6pm - 7pm: Ben Green, author, "The Smart Enough City" (More info...)

Options June 22, 2020: Voices in tech 4: Apple, eBay, facial rec, and Joe on Zuck

Listen to this show: MP3 - 128K |  Pop‑up player!

Tonight: Voices in tech 4: Apple, eBay, facial rec, and Joe on Zuck



Pointers:

Vergecast with David Heinemeier Hansson and Rep. David Cicilline (June 18)

Update to the Apple/Hey.com fight (today, Monday, June 22): bending to the PR crisis, Apple has approved the Hey app. But there's apparently no change for the dozens of other developers who have been shaken down by Apple.

• Articles on eBay: Guardian, NPR, NYT, Wired. See also the Vox story about former CEO Devin Wenig claiming no participation in the scheme (Vox, June 18).

• See also my own take: Apple, eBay, and the desolation of tech (June 19)

John Oliver on facial recognition (June 14)

Joe Scarborough on Mark Zuckerberg (June 17)

- - -

YOU CAN STILL DONATE TO WFMU if you want to show support for Techtonic. Thanks.

Check out techtonic.fm for recent Techtonic interviews and Little Slice of Tech Pie segments.

PODCAST: Subscribe to the Techtonic podcast

Artist Track Images Approx. start time
  Mark discusses Apple, eBay, facial rec, and the Zuck rant by Joe Scarborough.
Tomaš Dvořák  Game Boy Tune   Options
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  Mark's intro  
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  David Heinemeier Hansson on Vergecast  
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0:07:06 (MP3 | Pop‑up)
  Mark tells the eBay story  
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0:16:10 (MP3 | Pop‑up)
  John Oliver on facial recognition  
Options
0:33:19 (MP3 | Pop‑up)
  Joe Scarborough on Zuck  
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0:43:56 (MP3 | Pop‑up)
  Leap Before You Look  
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0:52:13 (MP3 | Pop‑up)
Aztec Camera  Jump   Options
Options
0:53:54 (MP3 | Pop‑up)


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Listener comments!

Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:00pm Webhamster Henry:

Loading up your Hey app now?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:00pm ultradamno:

Mark! Techpop Stantons!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:01pm Handy Haversack:

Tech gin*: Poured! Ready for the Techtonic!

Hello, Mark and all the Techyon Drives.

*(Tonight the role of tech gin will be played by a tech Hemingway daiquiri.)
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:01pm Mark Hurst:

Hi Webham, ultra, Handy! I have some delicious H2O here as my tech drink.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:02pm chresti:

Howdy Mark and Techtoniacs!
  6:02pm P-90:

Beepy Beepy Boop Boop
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:03pm chresti:

I guess masks kind of disable facial recognition.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:03pm Bas NL:

Hi Mark! Techtoniconsumers!
  6:03pm David in London:

Evening Mark and all Technoids. Handy, Ultradamno et al.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:04pm ultradamno:

Hiya DiL!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:04pm Mark Hurst:

Hi chresti, P-90, Bas, David! Thanks for joining in.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:04pm Handy Haversack:

David! I have sent you an electronic mail. Possibly the most important electronic mail of our lifetimes!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:05pm Ken From Hyde Park:

Handy with the latest tonic tech.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:05pm ultradamno:

Say, MSN wiped all my electronic mails without warning.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:06pm Mark Hurst:

Hi KfHP!
Avatar 6:06pm northguineahills:

happy hellos, Mark!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:06pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

Evening.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:06pm ultradamno:

I didn't call it a throwaway account for nothing.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:06pm Webhamster Henry:

I put in for a Hey account - they haven't gotten back to me yet.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:06pm Mark Hurst:

Happy greetings, ngh
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:07pm Mark Hurst:

Hi RevRabbit, thanks for joining.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:08pm Megaroni:

Techtonic keeps us on the cutting edge pulse of technology! Thank you Mark, I am going to get Hey
  6:08pm P-90:

30 percent is just too much. An in-your-face-arrogant rip-off.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:09pm Mark Hurst:

Update: today the Hey.com guys announced a compromise with Apple - see links at left.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:09pm Mark Hurst:

@Megaroni thanks for joining!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:09pm Mark Hurst:

@P-90 totally agree
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:09pm Bas NL:

This week dutch europe parlementeer Paul Tang successfully had a motion passed for development of legislation a future ban on targeted advertising by Big Tech. Lobbyist are galloping to Brussels at the moment.
  6:09pm David in London:

Handy, I shall view same first thing in the morning! Tired now from all your gruelling halberd training.

Damn, Apple really covering themselves in glory there. Way to go.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:10pm coelacanth∅:

hey Mark and others
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:11pm Mark Hurst:

@coel hi!
  6:11pm kevlicki:

Hey mark and technerds
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:11pm Mark Hurst:

@Bas that's a good development. Hope that Brussels wins this one.
  6:11pm David in London:

Hi Coelacanth.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:11pm Webhamster Henry:

It's a little bit subtle - if you have your own system for getting subscriptions, and you use an ios app, Apple doesn't let you to put UI in the app that goes to your pay interface. They want you to go through IAP, where they take a 30% cut. As Hey notes, they could have put in the button and told people not to use it, because it wouldn't actually be needed, but Hey wanted to call out the practice, which is admirable.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:12pm Mark Hurst:

@kev hi there, thanks for joining!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:12pm Webhamster Henry:

And yes, the Apple reviewers are capricious and inconsistent.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:14pm Handy Haversack:

Capricious and inconsistent use of monopolistic power? What hookery-jackery is this?!
  6:14pm ignatatus666:

30% is a mafia shakedown
That’s exactly what they charge.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:14pm Bas NL:

paultang.nl...
Avatar 6:15pm northguineahills:

I have personal stories of tech shakedowns in the GIS industry. Not as sexy as Apple, but real. (yes, it was ESRI w/ the muscle).
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:16pm mrdonutsu:

Have you noticed how many things you can't buy on the Amazon app on your iPhone.

Even AMZN doesn't want to pay that 30% shakedown to Apple.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:16pm coelacanth∅:

when's that going to happen to the scum that is all the big internet providers?
  6:17pm duck:

if apple magically slides on this, consider any favors they might be doing on intel
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:17pm Mark Hurst:

@coel can't come too soon. But unlikely to happen - see my interview on this topic with Susan Crawford about her book "Fiber" www.wfmu.org...
  6:18pm Sam:

CBS did the most nauseating softball interview with Tim Cook this weekend. Just kissing his ass and hanging on his every word with a big dumb smile as he promised all this vague mysterious creepy stuff to come.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:19pm coelacanth∅:

(bookmarked) i will, Thanks!
  6:19pm P-90:

What Mark is describing in the tech industry is: feudalism.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:19pm Mark Hurst:

@Sam ugh
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:19pm ifny:

It's not unavoidable, and it's not everywhere in tech. However, it *is* inevitable if we are talking about proprietary software specifically.
Avatar 6:19pm craplivion:

maybe there will be apple protest at the convention
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:20pm ifny:

The more we support the EFF and free and open source software, the more viable the alternatives. We have nothing to lose but our chains.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:20pm Handy Haversack:

I saw a very telling graph at ... I think a publishing conference on the decline of real wages, the inequality gap, and the growth in both market valuation and salaries at Apple, Google, Facebook, Amazon. Those four cos. have extracted and sequestered an insane amount of U.S. wealth. Even I, who think you can't solve the problems of capitalism with more capitalism, was shocked to see just how much wealth those four monopolies had taken away from literally everyone else in the country.

And then they just trade employees among themselves!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:22pm coelacanth∅:

"take care of her"
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:23pm Handy Haversack:

"Oh, Paulie? You won't be seein' him around here no more."
Avatar 6:24pm northguineahills:

ok, off to meet a friend (online). but what makes WFMU so awesome, archives!

@Handy: lultz!
  6:24pm ami ad:

Hello DJ. Hello all. Amagog.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:24pm ifny:

Community-based software might not be as blingy, or be as easy to find since projects don't tend to have a marketing department, but it's a minor inconvenience compared to the invasive, exploitative vicious cycles we are caught in. And that goes doubly for hardware. It might seem hard to climb out of, but it's harm-reduction one foot in front of the other work. The more we support each other and spread information (this show being a sterling example), the faster we will climb.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:24pm Mark Hurst:

@ami hi
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:24pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

GoodGawd - imagine where Tech could be by now in a Fair Market...
  6:25pm David in London:

That’s absolutely unbelievable. They’re going the full Corleone.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:25pm ultradamno:

I was thinking of the Don't F**k With Cats guy sending that woman video footage of her place of work.

Nice thing for me to remind me of...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:26pm mariano:

Yeah that eBay story is unbelievable, read about it a couple of days ago.
  6:26pm ami ad:

California Tech Bro culture.
  6:26pm Dean:

It insults the Mafia to compare these guys to la Cosa Nostra. (I know, the comparison was with Apple, not eBay.) They're fucking babies.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:26pm Handy Haversack:

Overweening hubris: They feel totally above the law. And they probably are. Total impunity.
  6:27pm Sam:

Just rough em up a little, give em a good scare. Tony don’t want no fires this time.
  6:27pm ZeeBee:

Such sickening out of touch stuff! Power corrupts!!!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:28pm ultradamno:

Munchhausen by proxy on a corporate scale
  6:28pm David in London:

I guess E Howard Hunt works at eBay these days.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:28pm mariano:

Ugh, it's like the crazy teenager who sets fire to his girlfriend's house so he can rescue her and be the hero.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:28pm Webhamster Henry:

This could be such a movie of the week!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:28pm ultradamno:

The Samoan sounds like something from a 60s espionage movie.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:29pm Bas NL:

I was just thinking the same thing DiL!
  6:29pm kevlicki:

@handy- much to agree with in your above comment.
  6:30pm David in London:

Call me psychic, but did he leave with a massive compensation package?
  6:31pm ami ad:

https://wtc.laibach.org/products/workless?_pos=1&_sid=c37b93472&_ss=r
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:31pm Handy Haversack:

David's a witch! Very small rocks!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:32pm mrdonutsu:

Works for the President of the US. Why shouldn't it work for anyone else?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:32pm coelacanth∅:

mr d exactly
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:33pm Mark Hurst:

Gravy! Churches!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:33pm Granny Spicy Tuna (e/em):

ugh
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:33pm Webhamster Henry:

Haha - you said "shame" and "CEO" in the same sentence.
  6:33pm David in London:

Not sure all this was what Doug Engelbart really had in mind back in the 60s.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:34pm Webhamster Henry:

Uh oh - audio drop out!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:34pm Handy Haversack:

"Just locker-room talk": The freedom to threaten, intimidate, and order the abuse of weaker others in a safe space.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:34pm coelacanth∅:

i guess i'll stop suggesting ebay to regular amazon users
  6:34pm ami ad:

Won't face masks help to disrupt that racist technology?
  6:34pm P-90:

Spokespeople for Donald Trump have been dismissing his comments on Saturday about deliberately “slowing down testing” as simply “off the cuff remarks”. How did this become the catch-all escape hatch for self-incriminating statements?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:35pm Handy Haversack:

"You're saying we have facial rec footage of this Samoan actually being evil? Get CBS on the Alexa!"
Avatar 6:35pm Hoboken Jack:

This show is the techtonic for what ails me
  6:35pm Dean:

Yeah, but Engelbart promoted the mouse, for which my wrist is not at all grateful.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:36pm ultradamno:

Though Oliver did show a clip from the Tony Scott movie Deja Vu in which they use facial recognition to track down a suspect piece of luggage in about 3 seconds.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:36pm Mark Hurst:

@Hoboken Jack thanks so much! Nice to see you here.
Avatar 6:36pm craplivion:

it use to be that you had to risk getting your finger cut off to access to your stuff.now ya got to worry about decaputation
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:36pm Webhamster Henry:

You can see the whole creepy Clearview interview John Oliver excerpted.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:36pm Megaroni:

Just read “Adversarial Man” by John Seabrook in The New Yorker about facial recognition- very good
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:36pm Handy Haversack:

What do we want?
Justice!

When do we want it?
Now!

If we don't get it?
SHUT IT DOWN!

(And hi, Hoboken Jack!)
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:36pm mariano:

Is that Eric Idle?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:37pm Mark Hurst:

@Megaroni good pointer, thx
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:37pm mariano:

Sorry, never noticed the resemblance in their voices.
  6:37pm Dean:

Intentional or not, mariano, witting or not, that was a hilarious question.
  6:37pm ami ad:

SHUT IT DOWN!
  6:38pm David in London:

Got a match? Yeah, your facial recognition AI and my arse.
Avatar 6:38pm craplivion:

just like the show person of interest.that show was good even though it had its cheesyness
  6:39pm Dean:

This is why I *always* appear in public making a face. Nobody has ever seen what I actually look like.
Avatar 6:40pm northguineahills:

ah, John Oliver,! He sponsered Jelle's Marble Racing on YouTube. I'm a footie fan, and I haven't watched a football match (soccer) since I discovered marble racing....
  6:40pm David in London:

That’s why I am never pictured online without my fox mask.
  6:40pm Dave Miss:

Howdy all
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:41pm Bas NL:

Orwell?!
  6:42pm Dean:

Oh, c'mon, be charitable. I'm sure "Orwell" was an off-the-cuff free association that stuck.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:42pm ultradamno:

Calling your thing Orwell or Skynet is really hiding in plane sight...or just clearly warning people what you're doing.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:42pm Granny Spicy Tuna (e/em):

har
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:42pm Handy Haversack:

David, they say dissolving digital foxes is next. The House of Lords says they need to hunt *something*.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:43pm Handy Haversack:

@Dean, it was probably just locker-room talk.
Avatar 6:44pm craplivion:

its an awfull lot of drastic changes that are coming faster and faster at an exponantial rate
  6:44pm Listener Christoph:

Trust us, you're not the only one outraged!
  6:45pm Listener Christoph:

And keep up the good energy!
Avatar 6:46pm craplivion:

and pretty soon.i think the ai speed of changing things faster than us humans can keep up with
  6:46pm Dean:

Facebook is the Don Rickles of our digital age?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:47pm Mark Hurst:

@Christoph thanks!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:47pm Handy Haversack:

Oh, Mark -- it is not just you! Finding this show gave articulation and a vocabulary to so much I had been feeling and fighting and railing against for so long. It is like finding an oasis. We get so. Much. Shit. from our friends but more especially employers and coworkers andeven family for not having cell phones, not existing in the ecosystems of Big Tech, for finding it all dangerous and abhorrent. We were outcasts, often. Your show has helped give us something to point others to and say, see? This is a movement -- there are others who think this and see these dangers. There are people who don't want you to give money to those who profit off hate.

So, again, again and always: THANKS, Mark. Thanks.
  6:47pm Davey Gravy:

Oh you disappoint me. I figured WFMU was gonna stay neutral. And should.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:48pm Mark Hurst:

@Handy really appreciate your support.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:48pm Mark Hurst:

@Davey if you ever hear anything factually incorrect on this show, please let me know (or tell the station manager if you prefer)
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:49pm Handy Haversack:

Wow, Morning Joe! Did not see THIS coming!
Avatar 6:49pm Fredericks:

Scarborough is a former Republican congressperson from Florida.
Avatar 6:49pm craplivion:

facebooks operating theme,,break stuff
  6:50pm brandon:

This guy sucks.
  6:50pm kevlicki:

Wow, joe and all these pundits perform incredulity so much, but Joe sounds really pissed in this one
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:50pm mariano:

Have you not been listening to FMU very long, or even the last few weeks, Davey?
  6:50pm P-90:

“...none so zealous as the newly converted.”
Good for you, Joe. Rock on.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:51pm ultradamno:

@kevlicki He does this every single day about something. He's not wrong here, but it's still schtick.
  6:51pm GC in South Slope:

Thanks for this show today, Mark. You’re on fire!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:52pm coelacanth∅:

which federal officers? (just curious)
  6:52pm duck:

the alternative is having the same people be in charge of censorship
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:52pm Handy Haversack:

I have never seen him, but I know that at work if we get a book on his show, everyone treats it like the Red Sea parting.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:52pm Mark Hurst:

@coel federal agent killed - www.nbcnews.com...
  6:52pm ami ad:

Always find it fascinating how Fascist are always the biggest defenders of Democracy.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:52pm Mark Hurst:

@GC thanks!
  6:53pm Dean:

Something tells me Joe S. hasn't read a whole lot of First Amendment jurisprudence.
Avatar 6:53pm craplivion:

i guess its either extremeism or censorship
  6:53pm ignatatus666:

This man is playing on people’s emotions
Can’t take what he says 100%
50/50
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:54pm Handy Haversack:

I'll take a Hurstemiad instead any day.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:54pm ultradamno:

And in this clip from Network, Coffee Joe has had all he can stand and he can't stands no more.
  6:54pm duck:

don't censor anything. fix our education system so people don't act so stupid and gullible
  6:55pm Dean:

Damn good idea, Auden.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:55pm Bas NL:

Anyone remember Myspace? People just left.
  6:55pm P-90:

Joe was 100% on target with this one. Nice “Howard Beale moment”, we could use more of these from “commentators” with big audiences.
  6:56pm kevlicki:

Does anyone have any good history of the boogaloo movement? An friend, and lifelong anti fascist asked me about them, but I’m kinda ignorant.
Sounds like the perpetrator of this murder was associated with the . They’re a white nationalist group that is trying to escalate tensions so their “revolution” can take place
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:56pm mariano:

Thanks Mark and Crew!
  6:56pm yippie:

we gotta start supporting death valley over silicon valley
Avatar 6:56pm craplivion:

duck yes.and thts coming from a minumaly educated hillbilly
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:56pm listener 126464:

Thanks Mark, FMU, and FMU crew.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:56pm Bas NL:

Thanks Mark! Nice one!
  6:56pm ZeeBee:

I know I’m late to the message but I think I’m gonna abandon face book and insta this month.
  6:56pm David in London:

Thanks Mark. Night all.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:56pm Handy Haversack:

Dang.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:56pm Granny Spicy Tuna (e/em):

Thanks Mark and WFMU crew!
  6:56pm Dean:

Add to Auden, Stevens' opening to Connoisseurs of Chaos:

“A violent order is disorder; and a great disorder is an order.
These two things are one.”
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:56pm chresti:

Thanks!
  6:56pm P-90:

Thanks, Mark
  6:56pm ami ad:

Thank you DJ. Crew. JobLess.
  6:57pm duck:

thx
Avatar 6:57pm craplivion:

thanks mark for keeping it real and interesting
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:57pm listener 126464:

Roddy!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:57pm Mark Hurst:

Thanks, 126464 David GST chresti P-90 ami crapli duck & everyone!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:57pm Stillwell Coney Islander:

Thank you so much Mark!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:58pm ultradamno:

Scarborough has a band. I don't know if he has any songs appropriate for this...or anything.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:58pm Mark Hurst:

@Stillwell thanks for joining in!
  6:58pm Laluna:

Thanks, Mark
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:58pm mariano:

Wait, how have I gone through life not knowing that Aztec Camera did Jump?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:58pm Stillwell Coney Islander:

:-)) !
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:59pm coelacanth∅:

Thanks Mark
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:59pm Webhamster Henry:

There's always a good supply of tech news , thanks Mark!
  6:59pm ami ad:

antifa is not the problem,the problem is why antifa is there.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:59pm Mark Hurst:

@Laluna @coel @Webham thx!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:59pm Webhamster Henry:

Justin Vivian Bond does a good Jump too.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:00pm coelacanth∅:

ami ad exactly. antifa is the logical and predictable reaction to a problem
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:00pm coelacanth∅:

(one of them)
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:01pm ultradamno:

They are the worst terrorist organization. No terrorism. No organization.
Avatar 7:02pm Franco Twinkie:

What a torrent of emotion to seep into my nap. I need to put on my antifa casuals and go to the store.
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