WFMU: Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from April 25, 2022

Listener comments!
	🤖 ♥ 6:00pm DanFA: I am currently in talks with Station Manager Ken to buy WFMU for $666 trillion dollars. I will begin to institute ads every 15 minutes and require all DJs to play Limp Bizkit's epochal anthem Rollin' once per show. You will also have to pay $10 a month to listen to the station and create yet another account to access it.
	🤖 ♥ 6:01pm chresti: Hi!
	♥ 6:01pm TDK60: I'm going to walk this one off. Hi Mark.
	♥ 6:01pm dreamyandseedy: really excited for this interview with Paul!
	🤖 ♥ 6:01pm listener james from westwood: Evening, Mark and all!
	6:01pm Rolando: Morning here in Oz. Hello friends.
	🤖 ♥ 6:02pm sbw: Hello from Los Angeles! Do I delete all my Twitter accounts now?
	🤖 ♥ 6:02pm Handy Haversack: Mark and all the Techyon Drives! Very glad to be here! Hey, chresti, TDK60, DanFA, James, dreamyandseedy, all!
	🤖 ♥ 6:02pm DanFA: @sbw you should've already
	🤖 ♥ 6:03pm ultradamno: Mark! Techtambulators!
	🤖 ♥ 6:03pm DanFA: Glitches and pops make the show sound like an old timey radio show.
	6:03pm David in London: Evening Mark and all Technoids.
	🤖 ♥ 6:04pm herb.nyc: Hola. Tuning in live; heard last wk’s 3 hrs ago. Gotta be chronologic.
	🤖 ♥ 6:04pm Ken From Hyde Park: With Mark Hurst, listening is a snap! Hello!
	🤖 ♥ 6:04pm Handy Haversack: I have an NFT of last week's original audio for sale. Shall we start the bidding at US$2 trillion? ultradamno! David! How have you been, me Runza?
	🤖 ♥ 6:04pm ultradamno: Hiya Handy, DiL!
	🤖 ♥ 6:05pm DanFA: @Handy sold
	🤖 ♥ 6:05pm alanSixº: hi yall - glitch free show ahead
	♥ 6:05pm -жеи: Love the chipmunk voice Mark!
	🤖 ♥ 6:05pm tim from washington: Hi Mark! Hi folks! I'm very excited about today's show.
	🤖 ♥ 6:05pm ultradamno: I think the tech was finally sick of being badmouthed and fought back
	6:05pm David in London: Hello Handles. All good ta. Been away for a week’s holiday, so back feeling zesty and in high spirits. How’s yourself?
	♥ 6:06pm Franco Twinkie: This I like!
	♥ 6:06pm -жеи: just kidding. i DID enjoy last week's chipmunk voice. Acorns!
	🤖 ♥ 6:07pm herb.nyc: Wotta walk! Let’s hear what he has in his samsonite.
	6:07pm David in London: Ultradamno, Tim, ahoy!
	6:07pm Dean: He has to stop in Solvang!
	🤖 ♥ 6:07pm Will the Sound Guy: Hi Mark and all!!!
	🤖 ♥ 6:08pm tim from washington: How-do, DiL!
	♥ 6:09pm Sonderangebot: Long-distance walking is an underrated way of traveling!
	♥ 6:09pm TDK60: I wonder how many borders he has to cross.
	♥ 6:09pm Franco Twinkie: I loved In Patagonia by Bruce Chatwin. He just walked around in South America, but he ate all kinds of disgusting stuff I seem to remember.
	🤖 ♥ 6:11pm tim from washington: @Franco - Have you seen Herzog's doc loosely themed on Chatwin's walkabouts?
	♥ 6:11pm Franco Twinkie: Dean, it's the law. You MUST stop in Solvang.
	🤖 ♥ 6:11pm herb.nyc: I emailed Olivia 10’ ago: Oops, yr show is about to end. And I JUST tuned in. But I wanna be part of the world when outside. I listened to music on my WALKMAN (bk then) but quickly learned I was uncomfortable. Anyway, mark hurst is on now…
	♥ 6:13pm Franco Twinkie: No I haven't Tim. But I'll put it on the list of movies I'll probably never watch.
	♥ 6:13pm Mark Hurst: Here's my interview with Steve Elkins about his documentary "Echoes of the Invisible" from December 2021: www.wfmu.org...
	🤖 ♥ 6:13pm herb.nyc: Q- did you consider riding a bicycle instead? (I’m half serious)
	🤖 ♥ 6:13pm Handy Haversack: Hanging in, David. Passport renewal dispatched, so the dream of seeing you in the Smoke this year is not quite dead! The internet just happened to go out at work this morning on the day that I wore my Techtonic shirt. Coincidence? I bet SOMEone wishes they'd got off Google before now!
	♥ 6:13pm 🇺🇦 Ike 🇺🇦: @DanFA@6:00, LOL
	♥ 6:13pm Mark Hurst: @Ken yes I need to give some credit to the chipmunk-voice section of last week's show! Pure entertainment.
	♥ 6:14pm Mark Hurst: @Handy that's a powerful T-shirt
	🤖 ♥ 6:15pm Handy Haversack: Mark Hurst: can't wait to get the new one so I can shout at the Phone Drones, "This is YOU!"
	6:15pm David in London: I’ve got the kettle on already Handy.
	🤖 ♥ 6:17pm tim from washington: @Handy - The internet did the ol' "call in sick" ruse instead of going head-to-head with Mark.
	♥ 6:17pm Mark Hurst: @Handy I'll certainly be thinking that as I walk around...
	🤖 ♥ 6:17pm herb.nyc: Ok. He answered my question. But if Paul rode a bike, we’d all totally understand
	♥ 6:17pm Franco Twinkie: Herb.NYC. Walkman can be dangerous. I had mine on driving thru Big Sir. I thought heard something funny and finally realized I was throwing a rod in my Volvo.
	♥ 6:17pm Sonderangebot: 5km that's a brisk speed!
	🤖 ♥ 6:17pm Webhamster Henry: This sounds like a fantastic project!
	♥ 6:18pm Mark Hurst: @Webham it really is. It's linked at left, but here's the direct link to the Out of Eden site - fascinating posts & photos: www.nationalgeographic.org...
	🤖 ♥ 6:18pm Handy Haversack: I think about that quotation about the speed of information absorption a lot.
	♥ 6:18pm TDK60: Walking through the Middle East might've been daunting. All those wars or recent ones.
	🤖 ♥ 6:19pm joe mulligan: even hiking vs. biking you see everything around you completely differently. things are your front of your eyes that you'd miss at 15mph on a bike vs 3mph walking
	🤖 ♥ 6:20pm MarciB: We found the film Paul was in (Echoes of the Invisible) so fascinating - so pleased to hear this interview. Thanks @Mark Hurst!
	♥ 6:20pm Mark Hurst: @Marci glad to hear it!
	♥ 6:20pm Mark Hurst: @joe mulligan so true
	🤖 ♥ 6:21pm Webhamster Henry: On foot, the dogs bark at you longer than on a bike.
	♥ 6:21pm Franco Twinkie: I'm a troubled person so I walk around a lot.
	🤖 ♥ 6:21pm joe mulligan: hahahaha Webhamster Henry!
	6:22pm Tom from Stirling: 3 miles an hour is kinda slow, isn't it? When does Paul plan on finishing this trek?
	🤖 ♥ 6:22pm herb.nyc: “Moving faster”- I only recently realized you can speed the talk rate on a podcast. Tried it. Didn’t like
	🤖 ♥ 6:23pm joe mulligan: @Tom I bet with all the elevation gains factored in, that keeps the average at around 3. e.g. hiking in the Adirondacks 3mph is a fast clip
	🤖 ♥ 6:23pm Handy Haversack: Sitting is the new (old) smoking.
	♥ 6:24pm Franco Twinkie: I regularly walk around The Rose Bowl in Pasadena. It's 3.3 miles. It's enough for me. After, I always want to drink coffee.
	🤖 ♥ 6:24pm Webhamster Henry: Related: Go seek out the book Stranger In The Forest by Eric Hansen: he walked across Borneo through forests where all the natives themselves had rarely encountered each other, much less have some white person walk through their territories. www.penguinrandomhouse.com...
	🤖 ♥ 6:25pm tim from washington: Handy - Stop sitting while I'm smoking!
	🤖 ♥ 6:25pm ultradamno: I'll believe that when there's no sitting allowed in bars
	6:25pm Dean: I practice extreme sitting.
	♥ 6:26pm Sonderangebot: Another great book about walking and gifts - A Time Of Gifts by Patrick Leigh Fermor. Takes place in Europe right before WWII.
	6:26pm arb: Shout out to Eric Hansen's "Stranger In The Forest: On Foot Across Borneo" one of my favorite travel books
	6:27pm arb: Oh hey Webhamster, you beat me!
	6:27pm Tom from Stirling: Love this idea of Walking. People rarely walk anymore. If they do walk it's for a cause. They want you to give them money. For the simple act of walking.
	♥ 6:27pm Mark Hurst: "A Walk in the Woods" by Bill Bryson is a good walking book, too. (on when he hiked part of the Appalachian Trail)
	6:27pm Dean: Shout out to Missing Persons?
	🤖 ♥ 6:28pm herb.nyc: There’s the book by a city college of NY person, who walked on every street in nyc
	🤖 ♥ 6:28pm Webhamster Henry: @arb it is indeed stranger and stranger!
	6:28pm arb: WH, I visited him at his house a few years ago, kind of a super fan
	6:29pm The Butterman: This guy is my hero!
	♥ 6:29pm Franco Twinkie: Rebecca Solnit wrote a great book about walking around. She's not always making shrill pronouncements, sometimes she's enjoying herself.
	🤖 ♥ 6:29pm Webhamster Henry: @arb [jealous] what did his sneakers look like?
	6:30pm arb: empty kleenex boxes
	6:30pm Tom from Stirling: Mark, "A Walk in the Woods" is a good book. Yes, was thinking about that book too. Good old AP. You meet some cool people on the AP
	♥ 6:30pm chris in the redwoods: here for the second-hand sitting. Mark, loved that Bill Bryson book. enjoying this conversation very much! also, hellos all around!
	6:30pm Dean: I suspect Paul understands that another message of his project is that Earth isn't all that big. An individual can circumnavigate it without technology to speed it up artificially.
	♥ 6:30pm Franco Twinkie: I like to walk around and look at front yards.
	♥ 6:32pm TDK60: Franco @ 6:29- Hee. I got those walkin' blues too.
	♥ 6:32pm Mark Hurst: @chris hi, thanks for joining!
	🤖 ♥ 6:33pm joe mulligan: since we've moved to the burbs, whenever we arrive home in a car the cats are watching us from the windows, they look at us like we came via spaceship because when we were in Brooklyn they could see us walk to the walkup
	🤖 ♥ 6:33pm Webhamster Henry: Walking is good, I used to just walk around foreign cities not really knowing where I was going (although I have a pretty good sense of direction) Best was walking around Budapest in the dense fog: people speaking an unknown language, hearing snatches of pop music, and the smell of gulyás.
	🤖 ♥ 6:34pm ultradamno: I've been stopped by the police for orderly walking on more than one occasion
	♥ 6:34pm WR: Considering the significant life style / life choice to be on this multi-decade journey. Equal to going to Mars or some such journey.
	6:34pm Tom from Stirling: Ha! Walkers are suspicious.
	🤖 ♥ 6:34pm Webhamster Henry: Don't get me started on car culture.
	🤖 ♥ 6:35pm alanSixº: two very good friends are on massive, several month hikes right now - one is hiking the florida trail, 1000 miles, the other the arizona trail 800 miles
	♥ 6:35pm Sonderangebot: I was scolded last week by a government employee because I do not know how to drive at 40.
	6:36pm Zinn The Mood: Hey folks. Catching snippets, and loving it. Has anybody mentioned Thoreau’s “Walking”? Seems to me many of my favorite historic writers deeply value and use walking as a way of facilitating the creative muse. Great conversation!
	6:36pm Dean: For some reason I'm reminded of Reyner Banham's marvelous book Los Angeles: The Architecture of Four Ecologies.
	♥ 6:36pm Franco Twinkie: I walked from Maxwells in Hoboken to West New York in the snow. I got to my friends house at six in the morning. It's one of my favorite walks in my memory.
	♥ 6:37pm TDK60: When I go back to my old suburban town just to walk around, the cops show up, look at me as if there's something wrong. Hee.
	6:37pm MKT in Inwood: I remember a "run around the world" which took place in the 1980s. Or almost did. They started in Europe heading East and had made it all the way across North America and then, in New York, had all of their photos and film stolen from their car. It's a formative memory of the Bad Old Days in New York.
	🤖 ♥ 6:38pm joe mulligan: car culture is strong. once the government mandates self-driving and/or EV cars there will be a "motorists lobby" that will emerge to "protect their freedoms" of driving combustion engine vehicles on their own
	6:39pm arb: women walking alone get extra suspicion as well as pity
	6:39pm Dean: "A journalist walks into a bar in Uzbekistan..."
	♥ 6:40pm Franco Twinkie: Webhamster - walking around in Budapest is a special kind of weird. I loved it.
	🤖 ♥ 6:40pm joe mulligan: @arb, truth! we saw a woman walking by herself in Marin and first someone rolled up to ask if she needed help, then someone said "she's probably a picker" (weed bud picker)
	🤖 ♥ 6:40pm Ken From Hyde Park: Many abandoned railroad lines are being turned into rail trails for walking and biking.
	6:41pm Dean: Closing tune to this program, something by Scott Walker?
	🤖 ♥ 6:41pm Webhamster Henry: @Sonderangebot I only learned at 46 , my sister (and kids) never learned.
	6:41pm GC in Baltimore: very cool about memoirs from the 19th century American west—the way that natives knew their way around based on the geography—directions and destinations are spoken of in terms of rivers and hills etc. Makes me wish for a modern set of maps that emphasize this, and deemphasize roads.
	6:41pm gauche knee: Fantastic talk, reminds me of friends zine “ The Long Walk Back to Myself”. https://microcosmpublishing.com/catalog/zines/1834?wholesale=1 She’s currently working on Richard Hunts’ (Sesame Street puppeteer who was openly gay) official biography.
	6:41pm Tom from Stirling: There's an effort to create a hiking trail across the U. S. coast to coast. Sections are already complete.
	🤖 ♥ 6:43pm Webhamster Henry: The Empire State Trail has been open for a short time - a little isolated compared to this kind of walk, but in theory you can walk to Buffalo or the Canadian border on it from NYC.
	6:43pm P-90: If you grow up in Manhattan, you grow up a little bit insulated or apart from the car culture that reigns elsewhere in the country. Walking remains a more “natural” activity wherever you go, whether for recreation or just to get to a destination.
	6:43pm The Butterman: Where does he sleep?
	6:44pm MKT in Inwood: Perhaps he's leaned to sleep one hemisphere at a time, like a dolphin?
	🤖 ♥ 6:45pm chresti: San Francisco is a good walking town.
	🤖 ♥ 6:45pm Webhamster Henry: @P-90 when I was in NYC, I walked all the time - rarely even took subways, busses, or taxis.
	6:45pm Zinn The Mood: Of course the great irony (surely not to folks here) is that many people believe the suburbs are “better for you.” But health-wise the most walking suburbanites get is generally walking from the front door to the car in the driveway to the store and around then back to the car and into the house again. City dwellers probably walk a few miles a day (I try to make sure I do).
	6:45pm castor: I’ve walked so much when traveling I gave myself toe arthritis. I never learn lessons about getting good footwear.
	6:46pm MKT in Inwood: Lots of experiences with having to walk to from places where I'm getting a car serviced; makes you realize how large the distances are and how in many places there are simply no sidewalks -- and sometimes grading and landscaping covers only the roads. In Maryland, I almost rolled down a hill while climbing an embankment between two shopping plazas.
	6:47pm P-90: Yeah, let’s “end on a hopeful note” FOR ONCE
	🤖 ♥ 6:48pm ultradamno: @chresti I imagine the hills train you well...you could go to Kansas and outwalk anyone
	6:48pm Dean: I don't believe that suburbs are "better," but I do feel they get a bad rap (setting aside the racist foundations). I grew up in one. I spent a lot of time on foot focusing on its patterns, luxuries, attractions...
	♥ 6:48pm Franco Twinkie: Me too Dean!
	🤖 ♥ 6:48pm Webhamster Henry: Even biking is a very different experience from the isolated experience of motoring. You feel the hills (even more than walking), real weather, and have a real sense of place.
	🤖 ♥ 6:49pm chresti: ultra, yeah it can be a workout.
	6:49pm Zinn The Mood: Webmaster Henry, is there a good link for the Empire State Trail you speak of? As a family we quite enjoyed the Mohawk Trail when we were upstate for a bit after the pandemic hit. I’m very intent on getting my young children to embrace and look forward to walking, around the city and on trails, as much as possible.
	🤖 ♥ 6:49pm ultradamno: It Follows taught me walking in the suburbs is how the sexcurse demons get you
	♥ 6:51pm dreamyandseedy: If anyone wants to hear more interviews with Paul, there are several over the course of his walk where he talks with Anna Maria Tremonti. I just love the way he speaks so clearly. www.cbc.ca...
	6:51pm P-90: Give us his FACEBOOK PAGE Mark?
	6:51pm Dean: I disagree that a walk around the world is "not scientific." Of course it is. It's a source of data. What makes it scientific is the rigor of control applied to it in the service of description and, perhaps, generalization.
	♥ 6:51pm dreamyandseedy: such a great interview, thank you Mark!
	🤖 ♥ 6:51pm chresti: The problem I have with suburbs is lack of public transportation.
	♥ 6:51pm Franco Twinkie: I use to ride my bike to work when I was sixteen. I got so much shit from the cops that my parents let me take the car. It was a great thing. After that I could stay out all night.
	🤖 ♥ 6:51pm Webhamster Henry: @Zinn : here you go! empiretrail.ny.gov it makes a detour to go over the Walkway over the Hudson in Poughkeepsie, snakes up through Kingston, comes bacK over the Rhinebeck bridge
	🤖 ♥ 6:52pm tim from washington: I hope the outro music is "I'm Walkin'" by Fats Domino.
	6:52pm Dean: Well, shoot, chresti, you should walk.
	🤖 ♥ 6:52pm Webhamster Henry: Thanks for the reality check today, Mark & Paul?
	🤖 ♥ 6:52pm DjLorraine: Literally walking the walk. Thanks for the info.
	6:53pm Fredericks: This has been such a positive and inspirational interview. I feel a little less gloomy and a little more hopeful.
	🤖 ♥ 6:53pm joe mulligan: that's crazy Franco!
	🤖 ♥ 6:53pm alanSixº: cant wait to send this archive to my friends on their long walks
	🤖 ♥ 6:53pm Ken From Hyde Park: Dale Bozzio: No one walks in L.A.
	🤖 ♥ 6:53pm Handy Haversack: That last point of hopefulness is a great reminder that we don't live in the "Anthropocene" (that glib phrase that elides consent) but the Capitalocene -- where the few thousands of people who will kill for profit are the determinors of the world we have to deal with and correct. "We" did not do it, and it was not done in our name -- but it's time to take back the agency that allows it and make hospitality the rule of the land.
	♥ 6:53pm TDK60: Happy Trails, Paul. Thanks, Mark!
	🤖 ♥ 6:54pm chresti: Thanks Mark Dean, I did (and hitchhiked) when I lived in a suburb of Santa Maria, but you're right.
	🤖 ♥ 6:54pm Webhamster Henry: I used to bike 4-5 miles to college, was the only one awake at those early classes.
	6:54pm Zinn The Mood: Empathy… Empathy and compassion are the twin engines of society. So relieved that my kid’s 1st grade teacher talks frequently about empathy. Thanks all - really great stuff!
	♥ 6:54pm Franco Twinkie: I guess I'm going to take a walk now. It's still ninety degrees outside, but I don't care.
	🤖 ♥ 6:54pm Blobs: Excellent interview, Mark - thank you!
	🤖 ♥ 6:54pm tim from washington: Very enjoyable conversation tonight Mark! Thanks for connecting with Paul.
	6:54pm Dean: National Poetry Decade, goddammit
	🤖 ♥ 6:54pm joe mulligan: great interview Mark! thank you for always drawing out excellent discussions
	6:55pm P-90: Wendell! Great choice.
	🤖 ♥ 6:55pm ultradamno: @Tim I was thinking The Way I Walk by Jack Scott
	6:55pm Tom from Stirling: This show was so cool. Thanks, Mark
	🤖 ♥ 6:55pm Handy Haversack: Thanks, Mark and Paul! Another winner, Mark. Another mitzvah. Many thanks! Stay Toniced, Technoids!
	6:56pm Dean: Recently read Freud's Civilization & Its Discontents. Worth rereading, folks.
	6:56pm arb: Awesome interview, thanks Mark!
	6:56pm Quinn02: Thank you Mark! Great show!
	♥ 6:56pm chris in the redwoods: thanks, Mark!
	♥ 6:57pm Franco Twinkie: The other night I threw my phone on the kitchen table so hard I broke a dish.
	6:57pm Zinn The Mood: Literally out for a walk now!
	♥ 6:58pm Mark Hurst: Thanks, everyone! Great discussion tonight.
	🤖 ♥ 6:58pm Ken From Hyde Park: Thanks for walking us through this, Mark. Time to drive to the gym, circle the parking lot several times to get a spot by the door and do a mile on the treadmill while I check up on news and email on the phone.
	6:58pm P-90: I’m often out walking while listening to FMU…
	🤖 ♥ 6:58pm Will the Sound Guy: Thank you, Mark and Paul!!! Be well everyone!!!
	6:58pm Sam: Wow! This was an insanely awesome show Mark. Thank you from a fellow walkaholic!
	6:58pm David in London: Thanks Mark. Night all.
	6:58pm Rolando: Thanks, have a good week.
	🤖 ♥ 6:59pm Joe McG: I see what you did there! :)
	🤖 ♥ 6:59pm Ken From Hyde Park: *and pick up a cheeseburger on the way home.
	🤖 ♥ 6:59pm Fishtown Mike: Great show, Mark! Thanks!
	♥ 6:59pm Mark Hurst: @Joe you got me :)
	7:00pm Zinn The Mood: This is about the only version I can take of this song. 15 yrs ago playing in a Celtic Rock band throughout the metro area drunk lads would be pestering us about not playing it. Pretty good , or at least more tolerable.
	7:00pm ?: Thank you so much, Mark Hurst for your generous interview with Paul Salopek.
	♥ 7:01pm Mark Hurst: Thanks, @?
	🤖 ♥ 7:01pm Webhamster Henry: This theme could actually make for a nice regular hour long show. I live in a place where if I walk out the door, I run into neighbors, but even a few blocks away, the only time you see neighbors is when out shovelling snow. The isolation predates electronic attention grabbing, but it's obviously lots worse now.
	♥ 1:22pm Mark Hurst: Another good book about a walking journey I'd recommend: "The Unlikely Pilgrimage of Harold Fry," by Rachel Joyce.
	3:29am Listener Abroad: Check out: https://www.walksydneystreets.net/ Many of the photos on this website were taken as Alan Waddell, 94, walked every street in 292 suburbs of Sydney, Australia.

Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from April 25, 2022

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Conversations with creators and thinkers who are charting the way forward in a tech-saturated society. In our shift to a digital future, we need alternatives to Big Tech. Homepage: techtonic.fm

Also available as an MP3 podcast. More info at our Podcast Central page.

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Upcoming events:

Mon. Jul 14th, 6pm - 7pm: Duncan Moench on “soylent screens” and producerism (More info...)
Writer Duncan Moench argues that society today is dominated by “soylent screens,” the addictive digital devices that treat humans as a resource to be exploited. There is an alternative, though, an old but newly relevant economic system called “producerism.”
Mon. Aug 18th, 6pm - 7pm: Stu Horvath guest hosts Techtonic

April 25, 2022: Paul Salopek is walking "Out of Eden" and around the world

Listen to this show: Pop-up listen Pop-up player!

Today: Paul Salopek is walking "Out of Eden" and around the world

First...

• Last week's audio has been corrected. Listen to it here. (The original glitchy live version will enter history as legend...)

• Elon Musk and Twitter Reach Deal for Sale (NYT today, April 25, 2022): glad to say I haven’t logged in since last week’s show.

Links to Paul Salopek

• Out of Eden Walk (on National Geographic's website): “Paul Salopek’s 24,000-mile odyssey is a decade-long experiment in slow journalism. Moving at the beat of his footsteps, Paul is walking the pathways of the first humans who migrated out of Africa in the Stone Age and made the Earth ours. Along the way he is covering the major stories of our time - from climate change to technological innovation, from mass migration to cultural survival - by giving voice to the people who inhabit them every day. His words, as well as his photographs, video, and audio, create a global record of human life at the start of a new millennium as told by villagers, nomads, traders, farmers, soldiers, and artists who rarely make the news. In this way, if we choose to slow down and observe carefully, we also can rediscover our world.”

• From this post by walking partner Yang Wendou in Yunnan province, China (January 19, 2022): “Looking back on the more than 200 miles I walked with Paul, I came to an unexpected realization. Walking for its own sake, while healthy and admirable, is only a small part of the benefit of moving with our feet. A deeper reward is rediscovering the world around us, shortening the distance between each other, deepening mutual understanding, and sharing each other’s cultures.”

• About Paul Salopek: “Born in California in 1962, Paul Salopek was raised in central Mexico. As a writer and journalist, he has traveled to more than 50 countries and earned most of America’s top print media awards, including Pulitzers for his reporting on human genetics and the civil war in Congo. In his past lives, Paul worked as a commercial fisherman in the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans, mined gold in Australia, and managed a ranch in Mexico.” See also Wikipedia.

• Sign up to get Mark's weekly email newsletter. You can also join Mark’s Creative Good community.

PAST EPISODES: techtonic.fm lists recent Techtonic shows.

PODCAST: Subscribe to the Techtonic podcast

Artist	Track	Approx. start time
Paul Salopek discusses his 24,000-mile "Out of Eden Walk" and what it means for our technological society.
Tomaš Dvořák	Game Boy Tune "Game Boy Tune" by "Tomaš Dvořák"
	Mark's intro "Mark's intro"
	Interview with Paul Salopek "Interview with Paul Salopek"	0:08:59 (Pop-up)
	Mark's comments "Mark's comments"	0:48:00 (Pop-up)
The Cleverlys	I'm Gonna Be (500 Miles)	0:53:57 (Pop-up)

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Listener comments!
	🤖 ♥ 6:00pm DanFA: I am currently in talks with Station Manager Ken to buy WFMU for $666 trillion dollars. I will begin to institute ads every 15 minutes and require all DJs to play Limp Bizkit's epochal anthem Rollin' once per show. You will also have to pay $10 a month to listen to the station and create yet another account to access it.
	🤖 ♥ 6:01pm chresti: Hi!
	♥ 6:01pm TDK60: I'm going to walk this one off. Hi Mark.
	♥ 6:01pm dreamyandseedy: really excited for this interview with Paul!
	🤖 ♥ 6:01pm listener james from westwood: Evening, Mark and all!
	6:01pm Rolando: Morning here in Oz. Hello friends.
	🤖 ♥ 6:02pm sbw: Hello from Los Angeles! Do I delete all my Twitter accounts now?
	🤖 ♥ 6:02pm Handy Haversack: Mark and all the Techyon Drives! Very glad to be here! Hey, chresti, TDK60, DanFA, James, dreamyandseedy, all!
	🤖 ♥ 6:02pm DanFA: @sbw you should've already
	🤖 ♥ 6:03pm ultradamno: Mark! Techtambulators!
	🤖 ♥ 6:03pm DanFA: Glitches and pops make the show sound like an old timey radio show.
	6:03pm David in London: Evening Mark and all Technoids.
	🤖 ♥ 6:04pm herb.nyc: Hola. Tuning in live; heard last wk’s 3 hrs ago. Gotta be chronologic.
	🤖 ♥ 6:04pm Ken From Hyde Park: With Mark Hurst, listening is a snap! Hello!
	🤖 ♥ 6:04pm Handy Haversack: I have an NFT of last week's original audio for sale. Shall we start the bidding at US$2 trillion? ultradamno! David! How have you been, me Runza?
	🤖 ♥ 6:04pm ultradamno: Hiya Handy, DiL!
	🤖 ♥ 6:05pm DanFA: @Handy sold
	🤖 ♥ 6:05pm alanSixº: hi yall - glitch free show ahead
	♥ 6:05pm -жеи: Love the chipmunk voice Mark!
	🤖 ♥ 6:05pm tim from washington: Hi Mark! Hi folks! I'm very excited about today's show.
	🤖 ♥ 6:05pm ultradamno: I think the tech was finally sick of being badmouthed and fought back
	6:05pm David in London: Hello Handles. All good ta. Been away for a week’s holiday, so back feeling zesty and in high spirits. How’s yourself?
	♥ 6:06pm Franco Twinkie: This I like!
	♥ 6:06pm -жеи: just kidding. i DID enjoy last week's chipmunk voice. Acorns!
	🤖 ♥ 6:07pm herb.nyc: Wotta walk! Let’s hear what he has in his samsonite.
	6:07pm David in London: Ultradamno, Tim, ahoy!
	6:07pm Dean: He has to stop in Solvang!
	🤖 ♥ 6:07pm Will the Sound Guy: Hi Mark and all!!!
	🤖 ♥ 6:08pm tim from washington: How-do, DiL!
	♥ 6:09pm Sonderangebot: Long-distance walking is an underrated way of traveling!
	♥ 6:09pm TDK60: I wonder how many borders he has to cross.
	♥ 6:09pm Franco Twinkie: I loved In Patagonia by Bruce Chatwin. He just walked around in South America, but he ate all kinds of disgusting stuff I seem to remember.
	🤖 ♥ 6:11pm tim from washington: @Franco - Have you seen Herzog's doc loosely themed on Chatwin's walkabouts?
	♥ 6:11pm Franco Twinkie: Dean, it's the law. You MUST stop in Solvang.
	🤖 ♥ 6:11pm herb.nyc: I emailed Olivia 10’ ago: Oops, yr show is about to end. And I JUST tuned in. But I wanna be part of the world when outside. I listened to music on my WALKMAN (bk then) but quickly learned I was uncomfortable. Anyway, mark hurst is on now…
	♥ 6:13pm Franco Twinkie: No I haven't Tim. But I'll put it on the list of movies I'll probably never watch.
	♥ 6:13pm Mark Hurst: Here's my interview with Steve Elkins about his documentary "Echoes of the Invisible" from December 2021: www.wfmu.org...
	🤖 ♥ 6:13pm herb.nyc: Q- did you consider riding a bicycle instead? (I’m half serious)
	🤖 ♥ 6:13pm Handy Haversack: Hanging in, David. Passport renewal dispatched, so the dream of seeing you in the Smoke this year is not quite dead! The internet just happened to go out at work this morning on the day that I wore my Techtonic shirt. Coincidence? I bet SOMEone wishes they'd got off Google before now!
	♥ 6:13pm 🇺🇦 Ike 🇺🇦: @DanFA@6:00, LOL
	♥ 6:13pm Mark Hurst: @Ken yes I need to give some credit to the chipmunk-voice section of last week's show! Pure entertainment.
	♥ 6:14pm Mark Hurst: @Handy that's a powerful T-shirt
	🤖 ♥ 6:15pm Handy Haversack: Mark Hurst: can't wait to get the new one so I can shout at the Phone Drones, "This is YOU!"
	6:15pm David in London: I’ve got the kettle on already Handy.
	🤖 ♥ 6:17pm tim from washington: @Handy - The internet did the ol' "call in sick" ruse instead of going head-to-head with Mark.
	♥ 6:17pm Mark Hurst: @Handy I'll certainly be thinking that as I walk around...
	🤖 ♥ 6:17pm herb.nyc: Ok. He answered my question. But if Paul rode a bike, we’d all totally understand
	♥ 6:17pm Franco Twinkie: Herb.NYC. Walkman can be dangerous. I had mine on driving thru Big Sir. I thought heard something funny and finally realized I was throwing a rod in my Volvo.
	♥ 6:17pm Sonderangebot: 5km that's a brisk speed!
	🤖 ♥ 6:17pm Webhamster Henry: This sounds like a fantastic project!
	♥ 6:18pm Mark Hurst: @Webham it really is. It's linked at left, but here's the direct link to the Out of Eden site - fascinating posts & photos: www.nationalgeographic.org...
	🤖 ♥ 6:18pm Handy Haversack: I think about that quotation about the speed of information absorption a lot.
	♥ 6:18pm TDK60: Walking through the Middle East might've been daunting. All those wars or recent ones.
	🤖 ♥ 6:19pm joe mulligan: even hiking vs. biking you see everything around you completely differently. things are your front of your eyes that you'd miss at 15mph on a bike vs 3mph walking
	🤖 ♥ 6:20pm MarciB: We found the film Paul was in (Echoes of the Invisible) so fascinating - so pleased to hear this interview. Thanks @Mark Hurst!
	♥ 6:20pm Mark Hurst: @Marci glad to hear it!
	♥ 6:20pm Mark Hurst: @joe mulligan so true
	🤖 ♥ 6:21pm Webhamster Henry: On foot, the dogs bark at you longer than on a bike.
	♥ 6:21pm Franco Twinkie: I'm a troubled person so I walk around a lot.
	🤖 ♥ 6:21pm joe mulligan: hahahaha Webhamster Henry!
	6:22pm Tom from Stirling: 3 miles an hour is kinda slow, isn't it? When does Paul plan on finishing this trek?
	🤖 ♥ 6:22pm herb.nyc: “Moving faster”- I only recently realized you can speed the talk rate on a podcast. Tried it. Didn’t like
	🤖 ♥ 6:23pm joe mulligan: @Tom I bet with all the elevation gains factored in, that keeps the average at around 3. e.g. hiking in the Adirondacks 3mph is a fast clip
	🤖 ♥ 6:23pm Handy Haversack: Sitting is the new (old) smoking.
	♥ 6:24pm Franco Twinkie: I regularly walk around The Rose Bowl in Pasadena. It's 3.3 miles. It's enough for me. After, I always want to drink coffee.
	🤖 ♥ 6:24pm Webhamster Henry: Related: Go seek out the book Stranger In The Forest by Eric Hansen: he walked across Borneo through forests where all the natives themselves had rarely encountered each other, much less have some white person walk through their territories. www.penguinrandomhouse.com...
	🤖 ♥ 6:25pm tim from washington: Handy - Stop sitting while I'm smoking!
	🤖 ♥ 6:25pm ultradamno: I'll believe that when there's no sitting allowed in bars
	6:25pm Dean: I practice extreme sitting.
	♥ 6:26pm Sonderangebot: Another great book about walking and gifts - A Time Of Gifts by Patrick Leigh Fermor. Takes place in Europe right before WWII.
	6:26pm arb: Shout out to Eric Hansen's "Stranger In The Forest: On Foot Across Borneo" one of my favorite travel books
	6:27pm arb: Oh hey Webhamster, you beat me!
	6:27pm Tom from Stirling: Love this idea of Walking. People rarely walk anymore. If they do walk it's for a cause. They want you to give them money. For the simple act of walking.
	♥ 6:27pm Mark Hurst: "A Walk in the Woods" by Bill Bryson is a good walking book, too. (on when he hiked part of the Appalachian Trail)
	6:27pm Dean: Shout out to Missing Persons?
	🤖 ♥ 6:28pm herb.nyc: There’s the book by a city college of NY person, who walked on every street in nyc
	🤖 ♥ 6:28pm Webhamster Henry: @arb it is indeed stranger and stranger!
	6:28pm arb: WH, I visited him at his house a few years ago, kind of a super fan
	6:29pm The Butterman: This guy is my hero!
	♥ 6:29pm Franco Twinkie: Rebecca Solnit wrote a great book about walking around. She's not always making shrill pronouncements, sometimes she's enjoying herself.
	🤖 ♥ 6:29pm Webhamster Henry: @arb [jealous] what did his sneakers look like?
	6:30pm arb: empty kleenex boxes
	6:30pm Tom from Stirling: Mark, "A Walk in the Woods" is a good book. Yes, was thinking about that book too. Good old AP. You meet some cool people on the AP
	♥ 6:30pm chris in the redwoods: here for the second-hand sitting. Mark, loved that Bill Bryson book. enjoying this conversation very much! also, hellos all around!
	6:30pm Dean: I suspect Paul understands that another message of his project is that Earth isn't all that big. An individual can circumnavigate it without technology to speed it up artificially.
	♥ 6:30pm Franco Twinkie: I like to walk around and look at front yards.
	♥ 6:32pm TDK60: Franco @ 6:29- Hee. I got those walkin' blues too.
	♥ 6:32pm Mark Hurst: @chris hi, thanks for joining!
	🤖 ♥ 6:33pm joe mulligan: since we've moved to the burbs, whenever we arrive home in a car the cats are watching us from the windows, they look at us like we came via spaceship because when we were in Brooklyn they could see us walk to the walkup
	🤖 ♥ 6:33pm Webhamster Henry: Walking is good, I used to just walk around foreign cities not really knowing where I was going (although I have a pretty good sense of direction) Best was walking around Budapest in the dense fog: people speaking an unknown language, hearing snatches of pop music, and the smell of gulyás.
	🤖 ♥ 6:34pm ultradamno: I've been stopped by the police for orderly walking on more than one occasion
	♥ 6:34pm WR: Considering the significant life style / life choice to be on this multi-decade journey. Equal to going to Mars or some such journey.
	6:34pm Tom from Stirling: Ha! Walkers are suspicious.
	🤖 ♥ 6:34pm Webhamster Henry: Don't get me started on car culture.
	🤖 ♥ 6:35pm alanSixº: two very good friends are on massive, several month hikes right now - one is hiking the florida trail, 1000 miles, the other the arizona trail 800 miles
	♥ 6:35pm Sonderangebot: I was scolded last week by a government employee because I do not know how to drive at 40.
	6:36pm Zinn The Mood: Hey folks. Catching snippets, and loving it. Has anybody mentioned Thoreau’s “Walking”? Seems to me many of my favorite historic writers deeply value and use walking as a way of facilitating the creative muse. Great conversation!
	6:36pm Dean: For some reason I'm reminded of Reyner Banham's marvelous book Los Angeles: The Architecture of Four Ecologies.
	♥ 6:36pm Franco Twinkie: I walked from Maxwells in Hoboken to West New York in the snow. I got to my friends house at six in the morning. It's one of my favorite walks in my memory.
	♥ 6:37pm TDK60: When I go back to my old suburban town just to walk around, the cops show up, look at me as if there's something wrong. Hee.
	6:37pm MKT in Inwood: I remember a "run around the world" which took place in the 1980s. Or almost did. They started in Europe heading East and had made it all the way across North America and then, in New York, had all of their photos and film stolen from their car. It's a formative memory of the Bad Old Days in New York.
	🤖 ♥ 6:38pm joe mulligan: car culture is strong. once the government mandates self-driving and/or EV cars there will be a "motorists lobby" that will emerge to "protect their freedoms" of driving combustion engine vehicles on their own
	6:39pm arb: women walking alone get extra suspicion as well as pity
	6:39pm Dean: "A journalist walks into a bar in Uzbekistan..."
	♥ 6:40pm Franco Twinkie: Webhamster - walking around in Budapest is a special kind of weird. I loved it.
	🤖 ♥ 6:40pm joe mulligan: @arb, truth! we saw a woman walking by herself in Marin and first someone rolled up to ask if she needed help, then someone said "she's probably a picker" (weed bud picker)
	🤖 ♥ 6:40pm Ken From Hyde Park: Many abandoned railroad lines are being turned into rail trails for walking and biking.
	6:41pm Dean: Closing tune to this program, something by Scott Walker?
	🤖 ♥ 6:41pm Webhamster Henry: @Sonderangebot I only learned at 46 , my sister (and kids) never learned.
	6:41pm GC in Baltimore: very cool about memoirs from the 19th century American west—the way that natives knew their way around based on the geography—directions and destinations are spoken of in terms of rivers and hills etc. Makes me wish for a modern set of maps that emphasize this, and deemphasize roads.
	6:41pm gauche knee: Fantastic talk, reminds me of friends zine “ The Long Walk Back to Myself”. https://microcosmpublishing.com/catalog/zines/1834?wholesale=1 She’s currently working on Richard Hunts’ (Sesame Street puppeteer who was openly gay) official biography.
	6:41pm Tom from Stirling: There's an effort to create a hiking trail across the U. S. coast to coast. Sections are already complete.
	🤖 ♥ 6:43pm Webhamster Henry: The Empire State Trail has been open for a short time - a little isolated compared to this kind of walk, but in theory you can walk to Buffalo or the Canadian border on it from NYC.
	6:43pm P-90: If you grow up in Manhattan, you grow up a little bit insulated or apart from the car culture that reigns elsewhere in the country. Walking remains a more “natural” activity wherever you go, whether for recreation or just to get to a destination.
	6:43pm The Butterman: Where does he sleep?
	6:44pm MKT in Inwood: Perhaps he's leaned to sleep one hemisphere at a time, like a dolphin?
	🤖 ♥ 6:45pm chresti: San Francisco is a good walking town.
	🤖 ♥ 6:45pm Webhamster Henry: @P-90 when I was in NYC, I walked all the time - rarely even took subways, busses, or taxis.
	6:45pm Zinn The Mood: Of course the great irony (surely not to folks here) is that many people believe the suburbs are “better for you.” But health-wise the most walking suburbanites get is generally walking from the front door to the car in the driveway to the store and around then back to the car and into the house again. City dwellers probably walk a few miles a day (I try to make sure I do).
	6:45pm castor: I’ve walked so much when traveling I gave myself toe arthritis. I never learn lessons about getting good footwear.
	6:46pm MKT in Inwood: Lots of experiences with having to walk to from places where I'm getting a car serviced; makes you realize how large the distances are and how in many places there are simply no sidewalks -- and sometimes grading and landscaping covers only the roads. In Maryland, I almost rolled down a hill while climbing an embankment between two shopping plazas.
	6:47pm P-90: Yeah, let’s “end on a hopeful note” FOR ONCE
	🤖 ♥ 6:48pm ultradamno: @chresti I imagine the hills train you well...you could go to Kansas and outwalk anyone
	6:48pm Dean: I don't believe that suburbs are "better," but I do feel they get a bad rap (setting aside the racist foundations). I grew up in one. I spent a lot of time on foot focusing on its patterns, luxuries, attractions...
	♥ 6:48pm Franco Twinkie: Me too Dean!
	🤖 ♥ 6:48pm Webhamster Henry: Even biking is a very different experience from the isolated experience of motoring. You feel the hills (even more than walking), real weather, and have a real sense of place.
	🤖 ♥ 6:49pm chresti: ultra, yeah it can be a workout.
	6:49pm Zinn The Mood: Webmaster Henry, is there a good link for the Empire State Trail you speak of? As a family we quite enjoyed the Mohawk Trail when we were upstate for a bit after the pandemic hit. I’m very intent on getting my young children to embrace and look forward to walking, around the city and on trails, as much as possible.
	🤖 ♥ 6:49pm ultradamno: It Follows taught me walking in the suburbs is how the sexcurse demons get you
	♥ 6:51pm dreamyandseedy: If anyone wants to hear more interviews with Paul, there are several over the course of his walk where he talks with Anna Maria Tremonti. I just love the way he speaks so clearly. www.cbc.ca...
	6:51pm P-90: Give us his FACEBOOK PAGE Mark?
	6:51pm Dean: I disagree that a walk around the world is "not scientific." Of course it is. It's a source of data. What makes it scientific is the rigor of control applied to it in the service of description and, perhaps, generalization.
	♥ 6:51pm dreamyandseedy: such a great interview, thank you Mark!
	🤖 ♥ 6:51pm chresti: The problem I have with suburbs is lack of public transportation.
	♥ 6:51pm Franco Twinkie: I use to ride my bike to work when I was sixteen. I got so much shit from the cops that my parents let me take the car. It was a great thing. After that I could stay out all night.
	🤖 ♥ 6:51pm Webhamster Henry: @Zinn : here you go! empiretrail.ny.gov it makes a detour to go over the Walkway over the Hudson in Poughkeepsie, snakes up through Kingston, comes bacK over the Rhinebeck bridge
	🤖 ♥ 6:52pm tim from washington: I hope the outro music is "I'm Walkin'" by Fats Domino.
	6:52pm Dean: Well, shoot, chresti, you should walk.
	🤖 ♥ 6:52pm Webhamster Henry: Thanks for the reality check today, Mark & Paul?
	🤖 ♥ 6:52pm DjLorraine: Literally walking the walk. Thanks for the info.
	6:53pm Fredericks: This has been such a positive and inspirational interview. I feel a little less gloomy and a little more hopeful.
	🤖 ♥ 6:53pm joe mulligan: that's crazy Franco!
	🤖 ♥ 6:53pm alanSixº: cant wait to send this archive to my friends on their long walks
	🤖 ♥ 6:53pm Ken From Hyde Park: Dale Bozzio: No one walks in L.A.
	🤖 ♥ 6:53pm Handy Haversack: That last point of hopefulness is a great reminder that we don't live in the "Anthropocene" (that glib phrase that elides consent) but the Capitalocene -- where the few thousands of people who will kill for profit are the determinors of the world we have to deal with and correct. "We" did not do it, and it was not done in our name -- but it's time to take back the agency that allows it and make hospitality the rule of the land.
	♥ 6:53pm TDK60: Happy Trails, Paul. Thanks, Mark!
	🤖 ♥ 6:54pm chresti: Thanks Mark Dean, I did (and hitchhiked) when I lived in a suburb of Santa Maria, but you're right.
	🤖 ♥ 6:54pm Webhamster Henry: I used to bike 4-5 miles to college, was the only one awake at those early classes.
	6:54pm Zinn The Mood: Empathy… Empathy and compassion are the twin engines of society. So relieved that my kid’s 1st grade teacher talks frequently about empathy. Thanks all - really great stuff!
	♥ 6:54pm Franco Twinkie: I guess I'm going to take a walk now. It's still ninety degrees outside, but I don't care.
	🤖 ♥ 6:54pm Blobs: Excellent interview, Mark - thank you!
	🤖 ♥ 6:54pm tim from washington: Very enjoyable conversation tonight Mark! Thanks for connecting with Paul.
	6:54pm Dean: National Poetry Decade, goddammit
	🤖 ♥ 6:54pm joe mulligan: great interview Mark! thank you for always drawing out excellent discussions
	6:55pm P-90: Wendell! Great choice.
	🤖 ♥ 6:55pm ultradamno: @Tim I was thinking The Way I Walk by Jack Scott
	6:55pm Tom from Stirling: This show was so cool. Thanks, Mark
	🤖 ♥ 6:55pm Handy Haversack: Thanks, Mark and Paul! Another winner, Mark. Another mitzvah. Many thanks! Stay Toniced, Technoids!
	6:56pm Dean: Recently read Freud's Civilization & Its Discontents. Worth rereading, folks.
	6:56pm arb: Awesome interview, thanks Mark!
	6:56pm Quinn02: Thank you Mark! Great show!
	♥ 6:56pm chris in the redwoods: thanks, Mark!
	♥ 6:57pm Franco Twinkie: The other night I threw my phone on the kitchen table so hard I broke a dish.
	6:57pm Zinn The Mood: Literally out for a walk now!
	♥ 6:58pm Mark Hurst: Thanks, everyone! Great discussion tonight.
	🤖 ♥ 6:58pm Ken From Hyde Park: Thanks for walking us through this, Mark. Time to drive to the gym, circle the parking lot several times to get a spot by the door and do a mile on the treadmill while I check up on news and email on the phone.
	6:58pm P-90: I’m often out walking while listening to FMU…
	🤖 ♥ 6:58pm Will the Sound Guy: Thank you, Mark and Paul!!! Be well everyone!!!
	6:58pm Sam: Wow! This was an insanely awesome show Mark. Thank you from a fellow walkaholic!
	6:58pm David in London: Thanks Mark. Night all.
	6:58pm Rolando: Thanks, have a good week.
	🤖 ♥ 6:59pm Joe McG: I see what you did there! :)
	🤖 ♥ 6:59pm Ken From Hyde Park: *and pick up a cheeseburger on the way home.
	🤖 ♥ 6:59pm Fishtown Mike: Great show, Mark! Thanks!
	♥ 6:59pm Mark Hurst: @Joe you got me :)
	7:00pm Zinn The Mood: This is about the only version I can take of this song. 15 yrs ago playing in a Celtic Rock band throughout the metro area drunk lads would be pestering us about not playing it. Pretty good , or at least more tolerable.
	7:00pm ?: Thank you so much, Mark Hurst for your generous interview with Paul Salopek.
	♥ 7:01pm Mark Hurst: Thanks, @?
	🤖 ♥ 7:01pm Webhamster Henry: This theme could actually make for a nice regular hour long show. I live in a place where if I walk out the door, I run into neighbors, but even a few blocks away, the only time you see neighbors is when out shovelling snow. The isolation predates electronic attention grabbing, but it's obviously lots worse now.
	♥ 1:22pm Mark Hurst: Another good book about a walking journey I'd recommend: "The Unlikely Pilgrimage of Harold Fry," by Rachel Joyce.
	3:29am Listener Abroad: Check out: https://www.walksydneystreets.net/ Many of the photos on this website were taken as Alan Waddell, 94, walked every street in 292 suburbs of Sydney, Australia.

Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from April 25, 2022

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