Options Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from November 2, 2020 Options

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Conversations with creators and thinkers who are charting the way forward in a tech-saturated society. Tech, community, video games, and whatever else is next.

Mondays 6 - 7pm (EST) | On WFMU | 91.1, 90.1, 91.9 FM & wfmu.org
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Upcoming events:

Mon. Nov 30th, 6pm - 7pm: Adrian Hon, author, "A New History of the Future in 100 Objects" (More info...)
Mon. Dec 21st, 6pm - 7pm: Guest host Station Manager Ken

Options November 2, 2020: William Deresiewicz, author, "The Death of the Artist"

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Tonight: William Deresiewicz, author, "The Death of the Artist"

Pointers:

The Death of the Artist: How Creators Are Struggling to Survive in the Age of Billionaires and Big Tech, by Bill Deresiewicz

@WDeresiewicz (Bill Deresiewicz on Twitter)

billderesiewicz.com (website)

Spotify Celebrates 100th Dollar Given To Artists (The Onion, Sep 3, 2020): "Spotify CEO Daniel Ek, posing with a giant check for a $0.00000029 payout that propelled the world's musicians past a collective $100 in earnings. 'This is an absolute milestone for a musician-oriented platform like Spotify, and confirms what we believed when we started, which is that music-streaming platforms can be a reliable way to help bands and artists earn pennies or even nickels for their work. But this achievement is really about the artists on our platform. Spotify couldn't have done it without you.'"

Spotify to offer artists and labels the option to promote their music in your recommendations (The Fader, Nov 2, 2020): "In exchange for a lowered 'promotional recording royalty rate.'"

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PAST EPISODES: techtonic.fm lists recent Techtonic interviews and Little Slice of Tech Pie segments.

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Artist Track Album Images Approx. start time
  William Deresiewicz talks about his book "The Death of the Artist."
Tomaš Dvořák  Game Boy Tune   Options Machinarium Soundtrack 
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  Mark's intro    
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  Interview with Bill Deresiewicz    
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0:12:14 (MP3 | Pop‑up)
  Mark's comments after the interview    
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0:53:43 (MP3 | Pop‑up)
The Pink Tiles  Internet   Options  
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0:56:48 (MP3 | Pop‑up)


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Listener comments!

Avatar Swag For Life Member 5:57pm Handy Haversack:

Mark and the Techyons! Don't say anything too interesting in the first few minutes ... I gotta vacuum ...
  6:00pm kevlicki:

Tech tech techtonic!
  6:00pm David in London:

Evening Technoids!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:01pm Ike:

Hey there all! Uh oh, polls suggest the deeply evil Prop 22 may pass in California, giving Lyft and Uber control over labor laws. EEK! Californians VOTE NO ON 22!
  6:01pm David in London:

Howdy Mark.
Handy, you missed a bit...
  6:01pm kevlicki:

I got my reflectables in the mail the other day!!
Avatar 6:01pm Human Barbie, Therapist:

Hi Mark and all! Looking forward to this show.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:01pm listener james from westwood:

Evening, Mark and all!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:02pm Handy Haversack:

Ha, it turns out there's a volume setting that can totally handle the vacuum! "Only commit."
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:02pm Ken From Hyde Park:

Hi, Mark ant Techtobots! 🤖
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:02pm ultradamno:

Mark! Techt 'r Treaters!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:02pm Phillippe Bastille:

howdy
  6:03pm kevlicki:

Ike, does it matter, since they can appeal every case to an anti-labor Supreme Court these days...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:03pm Webhamster Henry:

That Onion article is so true.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:03pm Bas NL:

Hi Mark! 'Lo Techtonicoids!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:04pm Rand al'Thor:

Hello, everyone.
  6:04pm David in London:

I really enjoyed Skeptech, though due to the time difference I was wilting by the end of it.
Ultradamno! Phillippe!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:05pm adampsyche:

good evening folks
Avatar 6:05pm tak:

cool skeletons
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:05pm ultradamno:

Hiya DiL!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:06pm Ike:

@kevlicki, that's a scary thought and you're probably right, unfortunately. Let's fight 'em tooth and claw anyway though.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:07pm Phillippe Bastille:

election?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:12pm melinda:

hi friends
  6:14pm David in London:

Musicians can always go out on the road and make good money from playing live shows to...oh...no...hang on a minute...

Hey Melinda.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:16pm Mark Hurst:

Hi all, thanks for joining in! @tak, nice skeleton!
  6:16pm Sam:

It’s harder for consumers to access content too. I would love to see the new Borat movie. But it’s only available on Amazon Prime? So I guess I’ll never see it. I mean I want to see it but I don’t want to see it THAT bad.
  6:17pm kevlicki:

Ike, I’m with you all the way!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:17pm Mark Hurst:

@Handy but I thought nature abhors a vacuum
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:18pm Webhamster Henry:

I’m with a group called Musicians for Musicians. Their main thing it to get people to want to pay for music again.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:22pm tim from champaign (now washington):

Sheeeeeeeit! That's a fuckin slap in the face getting paid like that. How much money is the streaming companies making?
  6:22pm David in London:

I remember boggling when Bowie sold his back catalogue just after the millennium. I couldn’t understand why he’d done it. Of course, it turned out he was way ahead of the game and had seen it all coming even then. I remember he said something to the effect that ‘everyone will have to get used to touring a lot’.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:22pm Mark Hurst:

@Tim oh just wait until later in the interview when you hear what YouTube revenue is really based on...
Avatar 6:23pm mecha maiko:

Thank you for having this conversation. I definitely have spent way more money, time and effort working on my music than I have ever made back from sales online.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:23pm ultradamno:

I believe we have a Bandcamp Friday coming up this week, by the way.
Avatar 6:25pm mecha maiko:

Another fun thing: I have had some venues/booking agents/promoters who base their fees for artists based on the number of Spotfy followers the artist has in that city... terrified to see Spotify being the benchmark for success.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:25pm ultradamno:

Well, Rhianna still has money coming from that bitch.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:25pm Mark Hurst:

@mecha maiko thanks for joining in this evening. I agree, that is a terrifying prospect to base fees on Spotify followers!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:26pm Handy Haversack:

Indeed, ultradamno. One of my friends just got a Spotify account because "it has everything, and for almost nothing."

Sigh.
  6:26pm kevlicki:

So how are labels and the recording industry staying in business?
Or even doing “good” business rn?
  6:27pm Sam:

Stereolab was cranking out an album a year in their heyday. Not so long ago. And each album was totally different from the last and totally original and brilliant.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:27pm Handy Haversack:

Big Tech loves a vacuum, Mark! The vacuum formerly known as competition.
Avatar 6:27pm mecha maiko:

@kevlicki maybe the comeback of vinyl?
  6:28pm kevlicki:

Handy, I just toss a couple dollars at this fledgling station in New Jersey each year and I get 24/7 programming AND 20 years of archives, totally priceless!
Donate to WFMU!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:28pm tim from champaign (now washington):

I've read interviews with John Waters and David Lynch who have said they're not sure if they'll be able to make a film again because of these reasons.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:29pm Mark Hurst:

@kevlicki 100%!
Avatar 6:30pm mecha maiko:

@kevlicki yes sir! The best station of all time!
  6:30pm olivia:

@kevlecki, it’s rough out there. A lot of small labels have side gigs of course to fund their label projects. Vinyl comeback is good and bad because it’s expensive to make
  6:31pm kevlicki:

mecha maiko, that cannot be the case, physical audio is costly to produce.
I need an economist to explain me how TF a label generates revenue in the digital age aside non-touring bands.
It’s the artist that gets royalties from licensing music to tv/Netflix/streaming shows, right? Where is the $v
  6:31pm David in London:

I remember when I went to see John Carpenter doing his soundtrack live show, and he said explicitly that his movie making career was pretty much over, hence his return to music.
Avatar 6:32pm mecha maiko:

@kev Wellllllll.... the royalties from said spots depend on who owns the master and what the heck the artist agreed to.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:33pm Handy Haversack:

But the TV-delivery platforms are not just delivering TV. They are commoditizing the users as Big Tech is wont to do. So I don't think "last bastion of paying narrative artists" is much of a reason to give a dime to Amazon or Netflix or Hulu or YouTube or CABLE or any of the rest.
Avatar 6:34pm mecha maiko:

@hand have
I raise my glass to you.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:36pm ultradamno:

Kim Deal election special from Dayton twitter.com...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:37pm Carmichael:

Everything will begin to change tomorrow. The first day of forever.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:37pm Handy Haversack:

Already, Carm? I thought we had more time ...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:38pm Carmichael:

Tomorrow I will smile again.
  6:39pm The Butterman:

Anyone wanna trade Dead tapes with me?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:40pm PaulRobeson1920:

Wow 60% of all Ad revenue online is Facebook and Google?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:41pm Ken From Hyde Park:

In AI news, soccer cameras have trouble focusing - www.iflscience.com...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:41pm tim from champaign (now washington):

Except for streaming FMU, I'm strictly physical media when it comes to music. Since the pandemic started I've been ordering directly from label and artists. It's probably a drop in the bucket but hopefully a larger drop in the bucket paying labels and artists directly.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:41pm tim from champaign (now washington):

Free from your library is legit.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:42pm melinda:

I remember the 'long tail' model, what a load of poo
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:43pm Mark Hurst:

So strange, those tech-utopian promises didn't pan out! Actually turned out to be closer to the opposite...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:43pm PaulRobeson1920:

@Thebutterman “Momma killed a Chicken she thought it was Duck. Laid em on the table with his feet stickin up! Ain't it crazy?”
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:43pm tim from champaign (now washington):

"Long Tail" = Trickle Down Economics.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:44pm Handy Haversack:

Long tail ... poo .. trickle down ... math checks out!
  6:44pm The Butterman:

PaulRobeson! That’s the rub!
  6:44pm Peter from Dover NJ:

@ Tim from Champaign: good point.
  6:44pm The Butterman:

Awesome!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:44pm melinda:

@Handy lol
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:44pm Mark Hurst:

"What doo economics? Voo doo economics."
  6:45pm Peter from Dover NJ:

Mark, where do you think Bandcamp falls on the spectrum of internet platforms dealing music?
Avatar 6:46pm mecha maiko:

MARK. UGH, you are my hero. The fact that I don't hear these discussions anywhere else makes me sad but also so so happy that this show exists.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:46pm Mark Hurst:

@Peter I like Bandcamp. Should do a show about their good work & much more fair compensation to artists...
Avatar 6:47pm mecha maiko:

I would love if Bandcamp would just bypass Paypal. Or pressure them to also waive THEIR fees on BC fridays.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:47pm tim from champaign (now washington):

I assume that big tech CEOs and most tech decision makers actually have no interest in any form of art.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:48pm Mark Hurst:

@mecha thanks - though I agree, it's unfortunate that it's rare to hear someone like Bill giving this message in other tech shows.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:49pm Carmichael:

@mecha, how about if I Venmo you, and you send me the digital files? Just a thought ...
Avatar 6:49pm mecha maiko:

@carmichael I've done it before, and I'll do it again. Although I don't actually have venmo. Have to check mark's list for the best money-sending platform.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:50pm Handy Haversack:

mecha, send jars of pennies -- helps the PO also!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:50pm Mark Hurst:

I need to do more research on payment systems (if anyone has good alternatives, let me know!)
Avatar 6:50pm mecha maiko:

@mark - mailing cheques'?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:50pm Richard S:

Hello! Just wondering if people here have any thoughts about OpenStreetMap.org which says it's "a map of the world, created by people like you and free to use under an open license."
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:50pm tim from champaign (now washington):

I just put Bill's book on my "to read" list at my library.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:51pm Mark Hurst:

Postal mail and printed checks, I like it. Though it's considered pretty out-of-date in most of the world, I think
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:51pm PaulRobeson1920:

Joe Hill’s immortal words
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:51pm Handy Haversack:

Richard S., that's what I use instead of Google Maps.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:51pm Mark Hurst:

@Richard I like OpenStreetMap. Some questions around governance I have to look into but generally speaking they're a much, much better alternative to fully-surveilled Google Maps
Avatar 6:52pm mecha maiko:

Could be the next low-tech revival. I'm out - good night all. Be stronk. You're all lovely people.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:52pm Carmichael:

www.moneyunder30.com...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:52pm Handy Haversack:

I wish there were an ethical ebay alternative after the revelations out of THAT shop earlier this year.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:52pm Mark Hurst:

Ugh, eBay. There's a followup to that story I need to cover. Unbelievable.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:53pm Handy Haversack:

Totally unhinged. I always used it with distaste, but after that, nope.

Unrelated, but does anyone here want to buy a sizable number of D&D books? I need shelf space!
  6:54pm Peter from Dover NJ:

"Fast art." Wow. Just wow. He's not wrong.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:54pm Mark Hurst:

Let's start the new eBay right here in the comment board!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:54pm melinda:

I missed the ebay story
  6:54pm Sam:

I’ve got a bridge to sell
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:55pm Handy Haversack:

I used to be part of a D&D book market that let collectors engage with one another directly.

It was on Google Plus.

We are doomed.

But that said, OK, Mark, I'm in!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:55pm Phillippe Bastille:

Had a conversation with Mike Doughty at a meet and greet after a concert and he told me he got so little money from the label when Soul Coughing was big that he had to write reviews (can't recall if they were movie or music) on the side to be able to make rent.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:55pm PaulRobeson1920:

I got a mason jar. Starting bid 3 dollars
  6:55pm David in London:

Cup of tea. Nearly new. $1.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:55pm ultradamno:

But how do artists make money if they can't sell their fingertips or whatever on eBay?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:56pm PaulRobeson1920:

I’ve been looking for a cup of tea! What luck!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:56pm Phillippe Bastille:

David in London, isn't this past your bed time?
Avatar 6:56pm Human Barbie, Therapist:

Great interview again, Mark, thanks Mecha for your input.
  6:56pm djsheilab:

Mark! Thanks to you + Bill for this exceptional show. It’s inspiring me to further explore how I can be more helpful in this fight for artists and their livelihoods. Going to buy the book at my local bookstore. THANK YOU!!!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:56pm Ken From Hyde Park:

$5 for my pile of firewood out back.
Avatar 6:57pm herb.nyc:

Wow. So much said in such a short time. Thx, mark.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:57pm Handy Haversack:

David, I'll trade you a half pint of Carling.

Thanks, Mark! And thanks to Bill as well.

Be well, Techyon Drives.
  6:57pm David in London:

Phillippe, I’m listening under the bed covers so mum and dad can’t hear.
  6:57pm Sam:

I have a bunch of pet rocks to sell. Top notch, pure bred. They just need a good home.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:57pm Bas NL:

Thanks Mark & Bill!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:57pm a5vzener:

Great interview. Thanks Mark! There needs to be legislation! VOTE!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:58pm Phillippe Bastille:

@David great batteries!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:58pm Handy Haversack:

Kate's getting the book, too! At Word in Greenpoint -- other location in Jersey City!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:58pm Megaroni:

Yes it’s criminal how they pay the musicians a tenth of a penny, wtf!!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:58pm melinda:

My Techtonic Tips booklet arrived, thanks!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:58pm tim from champaign (now washington):

Thanks, Mark! Excellent interview and topic.
Avatar 6:58pm Tank Top:

Anyone else cringe when they hear "creators".
  6:58pm P-90:

Goal AND “Stretch Goal”! Congrats everyone...
  6:58pm David in London:

Thanks Mark. Great show.
See you later Groovers.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:58pm Phillippe Bastille:

Thanks Mark
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:59pm PaulRobeson1920:

Good Stuff! Gotta LoVe WFMU!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:59pm a5vzener:

GOG
  6:59pm PJ:

Big Tech is enabled in its efforts to ripoff artists by the complicity of the consumers of the art they ripoff.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:59pm Handy Haversack:

'Night, David!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:59pm melinda:

@Tank Top I do when I hear 'creatives'
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:59pm Mark Hurst:

@DiL thanks! And thanks for showing up so late at night for Skeptech.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:59pm Ken From Hyde Park:

Haha ... who's pumpkin is that?
  7:00pm PJ:

@melinda: "Creatives" equates ad professionals with people who actually make art. It's all "content" for the internet.
  7:08pm P-90:

Sounds a little like one of those panel shows on Fox...
  5:22pm Ed:

Great interview Mark! Although I have to admit that as an artist it did depress me. On the plus side though I did buy Bill's book!
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