Options Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from September 7, 2020 Options

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Conversations with creators and thinkers who are charting the way forward in a tech-saturated society. Tech, community, video games, and whatever else is next.

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Upcoming events:

Mon. Sep 21st, 6pm - 7pm: Marc Abrahams, founder of the Ig Nobel Prizes (More info...)
Mon. Sep 28th, 6pm - 7pm: Ken guest hosts for Techtonic

Options September 7, 2020: Cory Doctorow, author, "How to Destroy Surveillance Capitalism"

Listen to this show: MP3 - 128K |  Pop‑up player!

Diagram showing drone surveillance of your house, from an Amazon patent (via Protocol)
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Diagram showing drone surveillance of your house, from an Amazon patent (via Protocol)

Tonight: Cory Doctorow, author, "How to Destroy Surveillance Capitalism"

Pointers:

How to Destroy Surveillance Capitalism, full text of the book by Cory Doctorow

@doctorow (Twitter)

Pluralistic (Cory's "old-fashioned link-blog")

Craphound.com (Cory's homepage)

Techtonic interview with Shoshana Zuboff, author of "The Age of Surveillance Capitalism" (May 13, 2020 show)

Amazon wants to use delivery drones to surveil your house (Protocol, Aug 30): "In Amazon's vision of the future, drones are going to be blanketing the sky, delivering packages to us, day in, day out... Amazon envisions using the drones' cameras for home surveillance, scanning for things like broken windows and people on a property. Because who wouldn't want the company behind Ring and Rekognition to be scanning for whether you're home all the time?"

• Outtro by Matt Robertson, who explains: ""I liken the surveillance phenomenon to a huge slow moving airship that everyone can see, but because it just hovers around really slowly, after a while people become used to it and eventually ignore it or get used to its presence." Thanks to DJ Scott Williams for the pointer!

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Artist Track Album Images Approx. start time
  Cory Doctorow discusses his new book, "How to Destroy Surveillance Capitalism"
Tomaš Dvořák  Game Boy Tune   Options Machinarium Soundtrack 
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  Mark's intro    
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  Interview with Cory Doctorow    
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0:07:33 (MP3 | Pop‑up)
  Mark's comments after the interview    
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0:51:10 (MP3 | Pop‑up)
Matt Robertson  Flight   Options In Echelon 
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0:55:48 (MP3 | Pop‑up)


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Listener comments!

  6:00pm David in London:

Evening Technoids. Hello Mark.
  6:00pm P-90:

Greetings.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:01pm ultradamno:

Hello Mark! Techtolsheviks!
  6:01pm Roland from Australia:

Hello All, and Web Hamster Henry I just wanted to say I really enjoyed your interview with Mark Hurst a while back. Thank you for all your contribution to WFMU. Now here I am in Australia benefiting from the work you did all those years ago
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:02pm Phillippe Bastille:

Howdy
  6:02pm David in London:

Ultradamno. Hail to thee.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:02pm ultradamno:

American Voices piece in The Onion on Wal Mart + “Until Walmart starts treating its workers fairly, I’ll be sticking with Amazon Prime.”

www.theonion.com...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:03pm ultradamno:

Hiya DiL!
  6:03pm P-90:

Hola Olivia at the board!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:03pm Webhamster Henry:

Hi Mark & Boing-Boing readers!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:04pm Ken From Hyde Park:

Hey, Mark and techtoscriveners. Would a business venture installing tinfoil shingles be a good opportunity?
  6:04pm P-90:

Boing? BOING!
Avatar 6:04pm TDK60:

Hello.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:04pm brainiac:

So looking forward to hearing Cory Doctorow today.
Hi everyone.
  6:05pm David in London:

Yo Phillippe.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:05pm Bas NL:

Hi Mark! Happy 150est!
  6:05pm P-90:

Well, Happy Third Anniversary!
  6:05pm Claire from Montclair:

Congratulations!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:05pm PaulRobeson1920:

Warm greetings everyone! Beautiful summer night, if only for awhile
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:05pm Baja Joe:

Congrats on CL episode
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:05pm brainiac:

RIP David Graeber
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:06pm Webhamster Henry:

@Roland in AU Thanks! Most of my stuff is gone now; the interface you are using was mad by Kenzo, who you can hear on Ken's Last Ever Radio Extravaganza, Mondays at 3 on the Drummer Stream!
  6:07pm David in London:

TDK, brainiac. All the classic groovers are here. Except Handy, who is probably trashed in the park by now.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:10pm PaulRobeson1920:

We’re doin it LIVE!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:10pm Mark Hurst:

Hi all, thanks for joining! @Baja, thx for the CL congrats.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:11pm ultradamno:

And congrats to making the fall sched.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:11pm brainiac:

Hi Divid in London!
I'm saying hi to Handy in the future listening on the archives.
Avatar 6:11pm holland oats:

long time listener (via podcast), first time live show commenter - go mark!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:11pm Mark Hurst:

@ultra thanks. It continues to be a privilege to be part of the WFMU lineup.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:12pm PaulRobeson1920:

Goodness Gracious! Bananas!? A storied history...
  6:12pm P-90:

Has anyone yet gotten Doctorow and Zuboff together to discuss all this?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:12pm Mark Hurst:

@holland - appreciate it! And welcome to the comment board!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:14pm Mark Hurst:

@Ken from HP good idea, tinfoil shingles. Then we can finally take these hats off
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:14pm PaulRobeson1920:

Interesting... Modes of domination & Max Weber, comes to mind!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:15pm PaulRobeson1920:

How do we come to know what we know? Good question haha
  6:15pm Dean:

Right: reduce corporate power, and not just *big tech* corporate power.
  6:15pm Dave Miss:

Happy Labor Day techies
  6:16pm P-90:

Hm, I didn’t think Fidget Spinners would come up this soon in the interview...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:16pm Webhamster Henry:

Glad there's a new Little Brother book.
  6:16pm Dean:

If only big tech could learn not to lie, much like, say, those insurance companies and banks never lie.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:17pm ultradamno:

Or a foil house cozy
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:19pm Mark Hurst:

@P-90 Fidget Spinners and Scientology, just a normal day here on Techtonic
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:20pm Webhamster Henry:

It starts with the cat videos.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:20pm brainiac:

Hail Xemu
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:20pm PaulRobeson1920:

Oppenheimer... He felt and wrote every human being should read this next book! (seriously)
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:21pm PaulRobeson1920:

“Hiroshima Diary -The Journal of a Japanese Physician, August 6-September 30, 1945” by Dr. Michihiko Hachiya. director of the Hiroshima Communications Hospital when the world's first atomic bomb was dropped on the city.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:21pm brainiac:

@Dave Miss: Can't wait to get my new WFMU Skeleton shirt!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:22pm Mark Hurst:

@PaulRobeson thanks for the pointer
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:23pm PaulRobeson1920:

Thanks for this interview! Interesting stuff
Avatar 6:23pm a5vzener:

None of my friends will admit to believing in science. I need new friends.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:24pm Mark Hurst:

Flat Earther documentary covered on Techtonic - coincidentally - May 20, 2019 (a week after the Zuboff interview). www.wfmu.org...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:25pm Mark Hurst:

@a5vzener well you're welcome here
  6:25pm Dean:

That's a bit extreme: none of us is qualified to use our judgment without an advanced degree? STEM is not *that* hard. We are perfectly capable of assessing plausibility, authority, legitimacy, and the contours of our own capacities to understand.
  6:25pm listener pi:

What about surveillance nonprofit?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:25pm ultradamno:

Last Week Tonight did an excellent show on conspiracy thinking a few weeks ago.
Avatar 6:27pm a5vzener:

This is bang-on. My flat-earther friend finds all his community from Australians who stay up late like him, drinking and doing their own "research". Doctorow is so right about this phenomenon.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:27pm Webhamster Henry:

" The dismaying thing about classic totalitarian mind is that any given gear, thought mutilated, will have at its circumference unbroken sequences of teeth that are immaculately maintained, that are exquisitely machined. " -- Vonnegut, Mother Night
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:28pm ultradamno:

Probably doesn't help that Herman Cain is tweeting that Covid isn't as deadly as the media makes it out to be after having died of Covid www.huffpost.com...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:28pm PaulRobeson1920:

“The Paranoid Style” by Richard Hofstadter 1964 Published in Harpers
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:28pm PaulRobeson1920:

Makes sense of a conspiratorial world view. In that essay
  6:29pm Dean:

For the point about monopolist machinations to maintain monopoly, see Robert Horwitz, The Irony of Regulatory Reform.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:29pm PaulRobeson1920:

This is a very interesting interview
  6:29pm castor:

The USA is such a beautiful self-combusting tragedy, so happy I get to live to through the madness.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:30pm Baja Joe:

The First Edition Of Monopoly, 1906
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:31pm Rory:

Joe Biden will fix it :D
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:31pm Rory:

Or not
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:31pm PaulRobeson1920:

With a pat on the back and a good Job Johnny... Our humanity is capable of anything...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:32pm Webhamster Henry:

The consolidation of Media, Banking, Telephony, Airlines, automobiles, ... there's just so much monopoly and collusion.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:32pm Mark Hurst:

@Webham I'd like to get Matt Stoller on the show at some point - he's written a lot about all those consolidating industries
  6:32pm mayor delay:

in monopoly you r supposed to pronounce the s at the end of arkansas ave
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:33pm PaulRobeson1920:

Mhmm
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:36pm Webhamster Henry:

@Mark you'd need a longer show!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:40pm ultradamno:

Except I doubt surveillance, foreign or not, is really Trump's TikTok issue.
  6:41pm P-90:

Cory’s one of those guys that expresses himself extemporaneously in nice well-formed complete paragraphs.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:41pm ultradamno:

He would love to move on Twitter and Facebook for political speech and has declared as much, the foreign angle is just his hook with them.
  6:42pm Dean:

Some time ago in response to an acquaintance who argued that he has "nothing to hide" I gave the Glenn Greenwald response: "Okay, then, tell me your SSN and your birthdate." And he did.
  6:43pm anon:

i'm surveilling my hummingbird feeders, the love bugs are feeding off the nectar and the anoles are taking care of the love bugs and the fighter pilot hummingbirds get their fill of nectar to fuel their flight to Central America and beyond to Tierra del Fuego and back.
  6:45pm P-90:

@ultra: security IS the TIkTok issue, but Trump’s motivation for jumping on board is that it gave him another thing to beat up on China for, after he finally figured out that Xi had suckered him...
  6:46pm northguineahills:

Here, been listening, but working..
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:46pm Mark Hurst:

@ngh hi!
  6:47pm northguineahills:

I’m in central FL, and I rarely see lovebugs anymore.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:48pm ultradamno:

I don't believe he cares that much about that. He like bringing up China mostly because it lets him inject a racist angle.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:49pm Webhamster Henry:

I've wanted to make a new Facebook client for some time. There's no official way to get the stuff you want to get though.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:51pm Webhamster Henry:

alt.barney.kill.kill.kill
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:51pm Lisboner Pasc:

Marvellous show tonight! Thanks Mark and greetings from Lisbon :-)
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:51pm Mark Hurst:

@Webham I remember that one!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:52pm ultradamno:

Usenet and My Deja...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:52pm Webhamster Henry:

alt.sex.hello.kitty
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:52pm Mark Hurst:

@Pasc thanks! Glad you're listening from Lisbon! Hi from NYC.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:53pm Webhamster Henry:

Binaries were broken up into numbered pieces encoded in base64 encoding.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:53pm Lisboner Pasc:

Thanks Mark, what an interview! -- got so much I want to dig into + research after this, Doctorow is superb
  6:55pm David in London:

Damn, that hour flew past. Thanks Mark, great interview.
Avatar 6:55pm TDK60:

Thanks Mark.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:55pm Rory:

Thanks Mark, it will only get worse and the masses accept or blame other countries.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:55pm chresti:

Thanks Mark!
  6:56pm P-90:

@ultra: Trump is FURIOUS at Xi. Check how his rhetoric towards China has changed since the first few months of 2020. Trump was happy to completely trust them on the COVID outbreak, and spent many weeks in the key early stages of its spread praising Xi’s “containment” and parroting China’s statements and reassurances. Because Trump thought he was getting a big trade deal that would help him get re-elected.
  6:56pm northguineahills:

This interview made me remember my youthier days....(some nostalgia references)
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:56pm Bas NL:

Thanks Mark!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:56pm PaulRobeson1920:

That was a very interesting interview
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:56pm ultradamno:

Huffpost piece on Last Week Tonight www.huffpost.com...
  6:57pm Claire from Montclair:

Great show!
  6:57pm P-90:

Thanks Mark! Also Ruth, Olivia, and Cory Doctorow.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:58pm ultradamno:

That is the business of government, he doesn't care about that AT ALL.
  6:58pm Rory:

Drones are normal
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:58pm Webhamster Henry:

Thanks Mark & Cory! A show on Boing Boing and the transition from zines to ezines would be fun!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:58pm Mark Hurst:

Thanks, everyone! Great chat tonight.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:58pm Mark Hurst:

@Claire thanks for joining in!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:59pm Webhamster Henry:

Little brother books are fun! the tech is a little outdated now though.
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