Options Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from March 16, 2020 Options

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Conversations with creators and thinkers who are charting the way forward in a tech-saturated society. Tech, community, video games, and whatever else is next.

Mondays 6 - 7pm (EDT) | On WFMU (Info) | 91.1, 90.1, 91.9 FM & wfmu.org
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Upcoming events:

Mon. Jun 1st, 6pm - 7pm: Ryan Walsh, of Hallelujah The Hills, on the Open AI Jukebox (More info...)

Options March 16, 2020: Special reporter Dan Casey on recent tech news

Listen to this show: MP3 - 128K |  Pop‑up player!

Tonight: Special reporter Dan Casey

- - -



To discuss:

Google's Corona tracker has no HIPAA coverage. See more about Verily in this Verge article.

Sleeping Giants post on Twitter: "While @google is making everyone log in to capture their data while screening for Coronavirus, @LVMH is making hand sanitizer for free. You can tell a lot about a company in the bad times."

Chris Gilliard's thread: "Ongoing thread on intersection of privacy/tech/surveillance/coronavirus."

• Dan's articles about Big Tech contractors: the Washington Post, the Guardian, and the Intercept.

• Dan's articles on generative design: Architect Magazine, Daniel Davis's blog post (including his AI-driven email generator - try it yourself on that page!), and Urban Omnibus.

• Dan Casey on Twitter: @casimal

- - -

Check out techtonic.fm for recent Techtonic interviews and Little Slice of Tech Pie segments.

PODCAST: Subscribe to the Techtonic podcast

Artist Track Images Approx. start time
  Special reporter Dan Casey debuts on Techtonic with news of Big Tech contractors - and generative design creating some ridiculous emails.
Tomaš Dvořák  Game Boy Tune   Options
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  Mark's intro  
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  Interview with Dan Casey  
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0:16:36 (MP3 | Pop‑up)
Vietnam's Ministry of Health  Jealous Corona   Options
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0:55:53 (MP3 | Pop‑up)


Listener comments!

Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:00pm ultradamno:

Hello Mark! Techtarantined!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:00pm Ike:

Love the cartoon at left.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:01pm Webhamster Henry:

There's some tech news out there still!
  6:01pm melinda:

Hi everyone!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:01pm Mark Hurst:

Hi ultra, Ike, Webham, Melinda! Thanks for joining in.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:01pm David (in London):

Good evening Techniks. Hey ultradamno. Hi melinda.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:01pm listener james from westwood:

Evening, Mark and all!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:01pm Handy Haversack:

Hi, Mark and all Techyon particles. Tech Gin is poured -- now let's mix it up!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:01pm Phillippe Bastille:

Howdy.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:01pm Bas NL:

Hi Mark! Techtonivirals!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:01pm chresti:

Hello!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:01pm Ike:

What's the best home hand san recipe? 60% alcohol, 40% aloe vera gel? 40-60? OK to water it down? Thoughts?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:01pm Carmichael:

Heya Mark and The Doomed Generation.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:02pm ultradamno:

Hiya David!
  6:02pm John from Florham park:

Hello fellow technoids
  6:02pm Dan:

Allo allo
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:02pm -Ken:

Hello all! Welcome to the new model of half-live programming!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:03pm Mark Hurst:

Here I am, on the comment board!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:03pm Webhamster Henry:

... used a lot on the Sheena Stream though!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:03pm Yes:

hello past and present mark, everyone
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:03pm chresti:

The new half normal
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:03pm brycepunk1:

Hello, fellow survivors.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:03pm Handy Haversack:

The half-life of WFMU^91 is long!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:04pm Bas NL:

Hi Ken! And you sound as well as live Mark..
  6:04pm Dave Miss:

Hello all isolationists! Including Mark!
  6:04pm John from Florham park:

@-Ken as long as the accu chat is open I think we will be ok and will keep our sanity
Avatar 6:04pm Dr. Goot:

digital handshake confirmed
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:04pm Mark Hurst:

Hi David, James, Handy, Phillippe, Bas, Chresti, Carmichael, Yes, Bryce, Dave - and Ken!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:05pm Ignatatus666:

Checking in from Putnam Valley
Good Morning Mark
  6:05pm Dancasey:

I’ve registered for the board so that I appear as a respectable member of online society, greetings to everyone about to hear my horrid honking voice
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:05pm \ⓔⓘⓚ/:

@Ken, I don't see many fill-ins on the upcoming fill-ins page yet! Do a lot of people have home studios or do you expect eventually to need to put GTDR or other alternate streams directly onto the air? Very curious to hear what will happen.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:05pm Ken From Hyde Park:

It's the techto-future, today!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:05pm Mark Hurst:

Hi Goot, hi Ignatatus!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:05pm Handy Haversack:

Would not mind if all shows periodically featured Ken shouting "FLATTEN THE CURVE" from now on.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:05pm Mark Hurst:

Dan Casey himself, thanks for joining!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:05pm Yes:

@Handy lol
  6:06pm Dancasey:

Hi Mark! Le plaisir, c’est le mien
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:06pm Mark Hurst:

@Handy agreed. There was even a "flatten the Hurrrrrrst" last night, too.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:06pm Webhamster Henry:

Are you a robot, Mark?
Click All Boxes that have emoticons in them .
[ ] [ ] [8^)]
[ :( ] [8^*] [OOO]
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:07pm Handy Haversack:

It was a thrill to witness, @Mark!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:07pm Bas NL:

Flatten the Big Tech!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:08pm Ken From Hyde Park:

The October Silent Marathon will take place in April. NBD
Avatar 6:08pm geezerette:

Lotta social engineering goin' on.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:09pm Handy Haversack:

@geezerette, you said it! Very much so.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:09pm tim from champaign (now washington):

FAKE NEWS! FAKE NEWS! IT'S COMPLETELY BIG TECHS' FAULT!
Avatar 6:10pm geezerette:

Howdy, Handy!
Avatar 6:10pm TDK60:

Hats off to medical workers in our "health" system (USA I mean).
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:10pm Mark Hurst:

Thank you, board op!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:11pm olivia:

it's olivia here!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:11pm Handy Haversack:

Thank you, board op!
Avatar 6:11pm Dr. Goot:

thanks to the diligent, opportunists, not so much - www.washingtontimes.com...
  6:11pm Adam West Coaster:

Where is Peter Thiel flying to?

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5e6f9ac9c5b6dda30fce44ba
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:11pm olivia:

board opping til 9pm today :-)
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:11pm Mark Hurst:

Thanks so much, Olivia.
Avatar 6:11pm dale:

what is half live programming? i feel half dead so it seems apt.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:11pm ultradamno:

Solution cdn.trendhunterstatic.com...
  6:11pm John from Florham park:

Howdy again Olivia
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:12pm Mark Hurst:

@dale this is a recording of me, at home, about 90 minutes ago. So almost live... instead of 8-second delay, it's a 90-minute delay.
  6:12pm Dancasey:

Yo Olivia, that Young Marble Giants song was absolutely perfect
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:12pm olivia:

yo dancasey. THANKS!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:12pm Phillippe Bastille:

I think Le Grande Orange said that there are 1200 engineers at Google working on a website.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:12pm Mr. Pumpy:

Hello, Mark and all the Tecyons...
Time for me to reverse the polarity of the deflector shield...see you on the other side.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:13pm ultradamno:

The POTUS twitter is going to get so much more berserk as rally withdrawal set in.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:13pm Ignatatus666:

Amazon showing PSA that they are dedicated to find a cure to the common cold
I instantly thought of the the guys selling concoctions and cute all’s.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:13pm Phillippe Bastille:

Thanks for staying around Olivia!
Avatar 6:14pm geezerette:

"service"
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:15pm \ⓔⓘⓚ/:

There's no apostrophe in "cure-alls." (Don't blame me for needing to correct you. I cannot help it. I might as well be a bot. Wait... AM I A BOT?!?)
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:15pm Phillippe Bastille:

Amazon said they are hiring 100,000 temp employees to keep up with the demand
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:15pm olivia:

happy to help out & listen to techtonic.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:15pm Handy Haversack:

I don't think insurance companies would want to buy any of that information -- then they might have to deny some claims!
  6:15pm melinda:

I’ve been avoiding Facebook more and found that checking in lately makes me feel more anxious, not better informed.
Avatar 6:16pm dale:

verily is a kushner family owned thing, no?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:16pm ultradamno:

And this potential Google site was only brought up to springboard into a cheap shot at the troubled ACA website launch
Avatar 6:16pm dale:

thanks mark hurst for the clarification.
Avatar 6:16pm geezerette:

Amazon Prime must be loving the lockdowns.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:18pm Webhamster Henry:

Flatten the Curve kind of sounds like a girdle slogan.
Avatar 6:19pm geezerette:

ha ha!
Avatar 6:19pm dale:

playtex - flatten the curve.
  6:19pm Dancasey:

Currently assuming that Bezos is preparing to become a prophet/overlord like Ned Beatty in Network, so who’ll be his Peter Finch?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:20pm Webhamster Henry:

COVID-19 advice for an elevator: Lift and Separate.
Avatar 6:20pm dale:

going to be cancelling netflix or prime. i know the crowd here would say prime.
Avatar 6:20pm geezerette:

I am Peter Finch!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:20pm Handy Haversack:

I assume working conditions for all those Amazon temp workers are going to be compassionately attentive to current conditions, right?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:21pm Mark Hurst:

We're gonna get to Big Tech contractors in a couple minutes.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:22pm Handy Haversack:

Thanks, Mark -- I should never doubt!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:23pm Mark Hurst:

Just posted Dan's articles about Big Tech contractors in the "To discuss" section. He's now covering the Washington Post article.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:23pm Mark Hurst:

@dale I'd say cancel Prime
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:24pm Phillippe Bastille:

Speaking of Twitter, here's a very helpful series of tweets from tina nguyen on when we can start fraternizing again: twitter.com...
Avatar 6:24pm dale:

yes. probably can't afford the stuff i could have delivered for free much longer anyway.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:25pm \ⓔⓘⓚ/:

@dale, this is a particular sort of thing, but if you like trashy, artful, well-choreographed violence, watch "Banshee" first if you haven't already, then cancel Prime. Most excellently ridiculous sex-and-violence TV show I've ever seen. Entire show now on Prime. I'm not much for the sex, which is silly and reductive. But oh, that violence. There's not much else on Prime IMHO though.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:26pm Handy Haversack:

Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose: www.motherjones.com...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:26pm ultradamno:

I'll be going to the supermarket later, I was thinking of taking an airhorn to set off if anyone gets within six feet of me.
Avatar 6:26pm geezerette:

Criterion is good.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:28pm WR:

Mark, your intro was is spot on. Key to this time is to keep track of changes made due to the the emergency to roll them back appropriately.

"The future is fun! ... The future is fair! ... You may already have won! ... You may already be there!" - Firesign Theater
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:28pm Bas NL:

Isn't it what is called 'outsourcing'?
  6:29pm Dancasey:

@geezerette Criterion is the jam! The best entertainment $ I spend every month
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:29pm ultradamno:

...or cancel Prime and pick up the Banshee boxsets with the pocketed money.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:29pm Mark Hurst:

@WR, thanks!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:30pm David (in London):

@ultradamno - It's right now that I'm falling back in love with my attic DVD collection.
Avatar 6:30pm geezerette:

Dancasey, same!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:31pm \ⓔⓘⓚ/:

Y'all are classier than me with the Criterion. I always *say* I'm going to subscribe to Criterion but then instead I just keep watching (at best) stuff like Westworld, The Magicians, or Altered Carbon instead.
Avatar 6:31pm dale:

i honestly watch pluto more than anything. my wife and i can't agree on movie genre's so we rarely watch either of those two together.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:31pm ultradamno:

@DIL Yeah, and speaking of Criterion, I pulled out my Imamura discs for semi-quarantine viewing
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:31pm Webhamster Henry:

@WR ... more like Firesign's Beat The Reaper!
Avatar 6:32pm dale:

lord, i have a TON of vhs tapes.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:32pm Webhamster Henry:

Movie viewers: if your Library system has Kanopy, I recommend it!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:33pm ultradamno:

@\ⓔⓘⓚ/ Co-sign on The Magicians! Also The End of the Fxxxking World (too on the nose?)
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:33pm Handy Haversack:

Black Adder and Twin Peaks and the Young Ones on VHS -- that will save us.
Avatar 6:34pm Dr. Goot:

This pandemic itself is the best reality show on the planet by far - youtu.be...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:34pm David (in London):

@Handy - Add in 'Tinker, Tailor, Solider, Spy' to that, and I'll be right round. I'm sure you and Kate must have a spare room.
Avatar 6:35pm dale:

i have all the monty python on vhs. and some gumby episodes i recorded in the 80s.
Avatar 6:35pm geezerette:

Tapes! Laser Discs!
We keep meaning to get Kanopy. Lots of Art Docs.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:35pm Mark Hurst:

@dale 80s gumby was the BEST
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:35pm Handy Haversack:

Our ceiling is almost entirely unoccupied, @David -- and the vulnerability is part of the profit there, too!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:36pm ultradamno:

Speaking of pandemic entertainment, Mr. Hurst's retweet made me aware of this incredible footage twitter.com...
Avatar 6:36pm dale:

pre prickle and goo mark.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:37pm Mark Hurst:

@ultra if all goes well I'll play an excerpt of that in my next Tech Pie segment.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:37pm Bas NL:

I know Autodesk.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:38pm Mark Hurst:

Generative design articles: I've posted Dan's picks in the "To discuss" section. (Also Dan's Twitter feed, which we don't mention at all!)
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:38pm chris:

Autodesk homed here in Marin County, CA
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:38pm chris:

and, hi, folks!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:39pm Mark Hurst:

@chris hi! thanks for joining.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:39pm Webhamster Henry:

I've seen some pretty crazy looking AI designed designs - they can design 3d printed things that minimize material used while maximizing strength. Kind of like the evolution of bones and joints!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:40pm Folsom:

autodesk bought eagle schematic software, now subscription software vs paying once
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:40pm Phillippe Bastille:

A couple shows (one I mentioned earlier on another board, so please excuse my repeating it) that I overlooked because they were on the crappy WB broadcast network that are worth a look are Crazy Ex Girlfriend and Jane the Virgin. CEG is better in smaller doses, but the song and dance sequences are both well-executed and very funny. Guilty pleasure fodder, but fun distractions.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:40pm Mark Hurst:

@Webham this is a little different from that. As Dan points out this particular feature is more about choosing from a bunch of different options.
  6:41pm Peter from Dover NJ:

Hello Mark, i love your program. Since you've brought up Adobe, im hoping that you can examine how they've become a monopolistic, overpriced, price gouging company. Thank you and be safe.
Avatar 6:41pm geezerette:

Apparently Frank Ghery was an early adopter of that softwear.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:41pm Handy Haversack:

Interesting that you said Twitter was your preferred monitor right now, Mark. I have been using primary sources: MTA, BOE, mayor's office, etc. I don't use Twitter in normal times, either, though friends share links to specific tweets. But I mentioned to one who does use it that it seemed like an absolute meat grinder of a way to pay attention to the current situation, and he gave a "hard agree." You must have a well-curated feed already so that the churn, foam, and froth (which can be denatured by an alcohol-based sanitizer) are kept at least 4' away.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:41pm Mark Hurst:

@Peter thanks! And you're right, Adobe is well worth some examination.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:41pm Webhamster Henry:

There's always an editorial component - so far. But .. like AlphaGO, eventually , the choices will be better than human intelligence can evaluate.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:42pm Handy Haversack:

(Jane the Virgin is a really touching show, @Phillippe! I had one-L Feelings!)
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:42pm Mark Hurst:

@Webham for a game of go or chess, would agree with you. For something very much in a human environment like a building, hafta disagree with you.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:43pm WR:

Webhamster Henry @631, good point. That is a good parable of the current individual experience but we also are experiencing pressure of tech consumer transformation? Can it be that we are in both places at once? And Mark's and Dan's current tangent spun by Autodesk sounds just like a FST bit.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:43pm Mark Hurst:

@Handy it's definitely got problems. Looking forward to using it less, on the other side of this corona mess.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:43pm Webhamster Henry:

GO is more complicated and subtle than architecture.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:45pm Webhamster Henry:

Apple actually does do that, making "Trailers" out of your footage in iMovie.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:45pm WR:

It is like a real writer get auto text as they write a novel or article.
Avatar 6:46pm geezerette:

It's an imagination killer. ?too many options.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:46pm ultradamno:

By the way, looking at the cartoon...why aren't facial tissues also being hoarded?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:47pm Mark Hurst:

The AI-driven email generator is linked in Daniel Davis's blog post, listed in the "To discuss" section. You can try it yourself on that web page.
  6:47pm Dave Miss:

I’m an old-school designer. Auto designing is like the ultimate step and repeat. It never works correctly!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:47pm Handy Haversack:

Sounds like exciting cross-platform opportunities await in times like these, @dancasey!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:48pm ♪Kɛ:

@ultra, good question. My local market was out of TP but not facial tissues, so I just grabbed the latter.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:49pm Webhamster Henry:

Let's keep laughing at AI straw men based on already-surpassed tech. I'm saying we're at the very very very beginning of an exponential process.
  6:49pm Adam West Coaster:

Mark, I simply want to say I am really enjoying this dialogue between you and Dan, and am looking forward to more of this collaboration.
  6:49pm Dancasey:

The email generator is an utter delight, I cackled
  6:49pm Dancasey:

@Adam thanks man!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:49pm Handy Haversack:

I think you know why, MARK.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:49pm Mark Hurst:

@Adam, thanks! You can tell, Dan & I had a good time talking. It was nice to laugh about some of the news...
Avatar 6:50pm geezerette:

Webham@6:49, yep.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:51pm Handy Haversack:

Old father, old artificer, stand me now, as ever, in good stead.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:51pm Mark Hurst:

Oh let's lighten up - no need to defend the feelings of the AI engine!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:51pm Cmurtha:

Isn't Zoltan the god in the cult from Bubbel Boy?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:51pm Handy Haversack:

Not the machine that made Tom Hanks BIG?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:52pm chris:

wasn't that Zoltron?
Avatar 6:53pm geezerette:

I live in LA. The future is now and it's ugly.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:53pm David (in London):

It was Zoltar the Magnificent!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:54pm Handy Haversack:

Thanks, Zardoz! I mean, David!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:54pm chris:

ah, thanks, David. of course. Zoltron Loves You.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:54pm ♪Kɛ:

Hey @Mark, where's this variation on the "this is fine" dog from? Love it!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:55pm Folsom:

i like the old joke, civil engineers design buildings no one would go in, architects design buildings that wouldn't stand up
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:55pm Webhamster Henry:

(Bringing the ADVENTURE)
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:55pm mndave:

This has had me howling for the last ten minutes!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:55pm Handy Haversack:

Well, half-live Mark and Techtonic is still better than the actual live tech world and all that goes along with it. Thanks, Mark and Dan Casey! So appreciated.

And thank YOU, Zoltar!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:55pm David (in London):

I love those Zoltar machines. There is still one here on Eastbourne Pleasure Pier. It went berzerk on me a few years ago and started spitting out cards at me. Zardoz (in London).
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:55pm chris:

moving walkways throughout!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:56pm Folsom:

zork, you mean adventure!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:56pm listener james from westwood:

I'd prefer a grue to COVID-19.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:56pm Mark Hurst:

@Handy thanks!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:56pm chris:

that was great. thanks, guys.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:57pm Mark Hurst:

@Webham @Folsom thanks for correcting me! Adventure it is.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:57pm Handy Haversack:

Protect the universe, Voltron!

(Also one of our cats.)
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:57pm Mark Hurst:

@mndave thanks! It was a fun one.
  6:57pm Dave Miss:

This is fine
Avatar 6:57pm geezerette:

Mark, Dan, gang, fun show!
  6:57pm Dancasey:

Thanks all for listening and for Mark for having me on, that was fun!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:57pm Webhamster Henry:

I may have a FORTRAN copy of the source of ADVENTURE's game engine somewhere!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:57pm Bas NL:

Thanks Mark & Dan!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:58pm Handy Haversack:

L8r, sk8rs!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:58pm Mark Hurst:

Thanks, everyone, for listening in! See you next week.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:58pm melinda:

Thanks guys!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:58pm Webhamster Henry:

Stay at home everyone! #teleworksince1997
Avatar 6:59pm Dr. Goot:

Thank You!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:59pm listener james from westwood:

Thanks, Mark, and be safe, all!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:59pm Mark Hurst:

@Dan thanks for being with us! Great chat.
Avatar 6:59pm dale:

henry - get on your amigo and solve all this.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:00pm WR:

The best part of Dan's comments was clarification of reasons for out sourcing.
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