WFMU: Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from October 30, 2023

Listener comments!
	🤖 ♥ 6:00pm ultradamno: Mark! Techtonkies!
	6:00pm Bea: Good evening, Mark!
	6:01pm Lieutenant Lambrusco: Love this theme music - hey all
	🤖 ♥ 6:01pm DanFA: Hello Mark Hearse. I've been looking forward to someday hearing Kashmir Hill on this program. One of my favorite tech journalists to follow.
	6:01pm chresti: Hi Mark and techtoniacs !
	6:01pm Rolando: Greetings my friends, I’m walking to work, listening to the show
	🤖 ♥ 6:03pm DanFA: Dan "The Man" Bodah
	🤖 ♥ 6:04pm Tech Bro Tim: Alright all you pencilnecks. I HAVE SEEN THE LIGHT. I am no longer a big tech skeptic, a privacy worrier and a social media avoider. I get sick of being a thousandaire! I’M TECH BRO NOW, YOU WEENIES! Screw your privacy mwah hah hah! I got crypto up the ying yang now! Mwah - hah - hah! Join my new social media platform #imnotaloseranymore.com bwah-hah-hah!
	🤖 ♥ 6:05pm DanFA: ↳ Tech Bro Tim @6:04 This your Halloween costume?
	🤖 ♥ 6:06pm Tech Bro Tim: ↳ DanFA @6:05 It’s my new look. I had my AI minion order from Amazon. I got it delivered in 3 minutes!
	🤖 ♥ 6:07pm MarciB: This book was terrifying (but really well done)
	🤖 ♥ 6:07pm Wendy del Formaggio: Hello Mark and friends! Very psyched about this interview. What a bunch of creepy shit, right in time for the holiday.
	6:07pm Rolando: Welcome to the team Tech bro Tim, Mark our fearless leader will help us all stay on the straight and narrow path that leads to freedom
	♥ 6:08pm Mark Hurst: @ultra @Bea @Lambrusco @DanFA @chresti @Rolando @TechBroTim @Marci @Wendy thanks to all of you for being here!
	🤖 ♥ 6:09pm Wendy del Formaggio: Ooh! I'm glad we're talking about Venmo. It's always made me really uneasy but I've not done the research to articulate why.
	🤖 ♥ 6:09pm DanFA: My local Girl Scouts chapter was selling cookies using venmo.
	🤖 ♥ 6:09pm ultradamno: Isn't that how Matt Gaetz got found out?
	♥ 6:10pm Mark Hurst: ↳ Tech Bro Tim @6:06 dude, Tim, yer lookin' awwwesome
	6:10pm P-90: Hi Mark! And: regular Techtonic listeners may want to check out Cory Doctorow’s latest (brand new!) piece about the “enshitification” of Facebook and what Zuck (and other digital oligarchs) are really up to. Connects directly to so much we’ve heard on the show. https://pluralistic.net/2023/10/30/markets-remaining-irrational/#steins-law
	♥ 6:10pm Mark Hurst: ↳ Wendy del Formaggio @6:09 Yep Venmo was publishing everyone's transaction data publicly - because of course it did - until the company got enough bad PR that they edged away from it.
	🤖 ♥ 6:12pm MarciB: ↳ P-90 @6:10 Thanks P-90!
	♥ 6:12pm mndave: Speaking of faces, the CV AI founder has one, and I have two fists, and
	♥ 6:12pm dale: saw a microsoft start homepage article about best cosplay costumes. clicked on it and there was a friend and the photo was from her facebook page. she had no idea. but we should ALL know we don't own our images.
	🤖 ♥ 6:12pm tim: Damn! This interview has already back to earth. I sucked as a tech bro.
	♥ 6:12pm Mark Hurst: ↳ P-90 @6:10 Good pointer, P-90, thanks. Listeners might also like to hear Cory's most recent Techtonic interview, from March - in which we talk about (what I have to call for FCC reasons) "enfecalization": www.wfmu.org...
	🤖 ♥ 6:13pm Bas NL: Hi Mark! All!
	🤖 ♥ 6:14pm chris in the redwoods: isn't scraping what search engines do? hi, Mark and everyone!
	♥ 6:14pm Mark Hurst: Hi Bas! Welcome.
	♥ 6:15pm Mark Hurst: ↳ chris in the redwoods @6:14 That's a good point - search engines all have scrapers (or "webcrawlers," the more polite term) - historically mostly focused on text. One difference here is that it's not just text content of HTML pages but people's biometrics (faces) taken from their personal photos (say on Instagram or wherever) that they might have expected to be mostly private.
	🤖 ♥ 6:16pm chris in the redwoods: ↳ Mark Hurst @6:15 gotcha. thanks, Mark.
	♥ 6:16pm mndave: ↳ Mark Hurst @6:15 And your previous episode on CV AI educated me on how wrong they are, particularly with POC.
	♥ 6:18pm mndave: ↳ mndave @6:16 Or maybe that was lexis-nexis and the other data brokers. It's tough to keep tabs on evil.
	♥ 6:21pm Mark Hurst: ↳ mndave @6:18 Yep - lots of cross-pollination of bad ideas across the tech industry.
	🤖 ♥ 6:23pm DanFA: I'm more concerned about corporations tracking me than the government.
	♥ 6:26pm Ciggy: 1). Hoan Ton-That says, what he’s evolved into around facial recognition technology, is that what the company is selling — this power for police officers to identify criminal suspects, to solve crimes — is the best possible use of facial recognition technology. That they are making the world safer, more secure. It’s being used to rescue children.
	♥ 6:27pm Ciggy: 2). Clearview definitely pushes that onus to police departments in saying, “We’re just providing the technology for them to use. They should never arrest somebody based on a Clearview match alone and that they need to do more investigating.” I think, for us as a society, there’s just a lot to evaluate here. I’ve talked to a lot of officers who, yeah, they’ve solved crimes with Clearview AI as a starting point. And horrific things — abuse of children.
	♥ 6:27pm Ciggy: 3). “Everyone in America is going to have the Clearview AI app on their phone. The moms of America are going to use this to protect their children.” And he thought he was going to make a ton of money off of Clearview AI. He said, “It’s going to be the new Google. The way you talk about Googling someone, you’re going to talk about Clearviewing their face.”
	♥ 6:28pm Ciggy: Always based on children
	🤖 ♥ 6:28pm tim: Man, this is a bummer but I really appreciate Kashmir’s research and dedication to the subject.
	6:29pm Saltonstall: I live in Chicago. BIPA has paid my spouse well over $2000… That said, I’d prefer it was zero… the money is nice, but her image is already out there.
	♥ 6:30pm Mark Hurst: ↳ Saltonstall @6:29 Interesting! I wasn't aware there were cash payments involved as well.
	♥ 6:35pm Ciggy: Is Clearview Ai related to Clear? "We’re an identity company that makes experiences safer and easier wherever you live, work, and travel."
	♥ 6:36pm Jeff Golick: Thanks for this, Mark. I find that the size of these data pools -- the extent of the information gathered -- is really hard to comprehend.
	🤖 ♥ 6:36pm tim: I’m probably phrasing this incorrectly but has the been any academic consensus about ethics being taught in computer engineering or information technology curriculums?
	♥ 6:36pm Mark Hurst: ↳ Ciggy @6:35 Clear is different from Clearview AI. Both surveillance-related, both claiming to keep people safe, but different companies.
	♥ 6:37pm Mark Hurst: ↳ Jeff Golick @6:36 Exactly. If people understood what it means that Clearview has scraped 30 billion identifying photos, people would be a lot more freaked out / outraged.
	♥ 6:38pm Mark Hurst: ↳ tim @6:36 A few CS curricula are starting to add in a required ethics course... not sure how that's going to make Silicon Valley, in its current form, any less unethical..
	6:39pm Rolando: No !!! The argument that it makes us safer is not a valid argument and that’s how all these things slip in. Just No !!!
	🤖 ♥ 6:40pm DanFA: No boss, I swear I wasn't buying spam at 3 in the morning.
	🤖 ♥ 6:41pm DanFA: Oh dear
	🤖 ♥ 6:42pm tim: ↳ Mark Hurst @6:38 Sure. I have no doubt it wouldn’t make a difference in Silicon Valley. This is a huge generalization but it seems that ethics is a foreign concept in this line of work.
	🤖 ♥ 6:44pm ultradamno: ...or are a juror in a case involving someone who would like to apply pressure against you
	🤖 ♥ 6:44pm MarciB: No privacy for you or you or you!
	6:45pm chresti: I’m going to start wearing clown makeup in public
	🤖 ♥ 6:46pm Wendy del Formaggio: ↳ DanFA @6:23 @DanFA: I mostly agree, except being a Jew, I don't have to look back very far to see why the government tracking me is also extremely dangerous. I have the privilege NOW of appearing white and middle-class and "adequately" female-presenting. But, that may not always be true, or keep me safe. It's worse for POC, trans folks, Muslims, etc.
	🤖 ♥ 6:47pm Wendy del Formaggio: ↳ chresti @6:45 O M G yes please. We should all start doing that. Public clown makeup: it's not just for Juggalos anymore!
	🤖 ♥ 6:48pm ultradamno: They Follow, the sequel to It Follows, was announced today, probably won't be scarier than this...
	🤖 ♥ 6:48pm MarciB: I wish facial rec was limited to genealogy and archival research only. Alas...
	🤖 ♥ 6:49pm DanFA: ↳ Wendy del Formaggio @6:46 Yes, excellent point. I'm not comfortable with either tracking anyone, though corporations at this point seem to be more pernicious than government. And some corporations have basically bought the government as in the case with Elon Musk as evident in Ronan Farrow's latest piece.
	🤖 ♥ 6:49pm Wendy del Formaggio: I totally want to read this and will request it from the library. I'll also brace myself.
	🤖 ♥ 6:49pm DanFA: ↳ Wendy del Formaggio @6:47 Why so serious?
	🤖 ♥ 6:49pm Wendy del Formaggio: ↳ DanFA @6:49 True.
	🤖 ♥ 6:50pm tim: Great interview, Mark! Another book I’m going to make a purchase request at the library if it already in.
	🤖 ♥ 6:50pm Wendy del Formaggio: ↳ DanFA @6:49 About what? Public clown makeup?
	🤖 ♥ 6:50pm DanFA: ↳ Wendy del Formaggio @6:50 Yes. It's a line by the Joker in Dark Knight. Not a good movie.
	🤖 ♥ 6:51pm tim: In kind of heartening news, when I went to request Blood In The Machine from the library, both copies were checked out and there was a small queue for it!
	🤖 ♥ 6:51pm Wendy del Formaggio: ↳ DanFA @6:50 Oh! I'm sorry. Your reference went way over my head.
	🤖 ♥ 6:51pm DanFA: This is why I don't leave my house.
	🤖 ♥ 6:51pm MarciB: I just took a privacy certification course thru the industry group I belong to. I was pretty well-versed in some of the horrors shared (thanks to this show). My colleagues were totally shocked.
	🤖 ♥ 6:51pm DanFA: ↳ Wendy del Formaggio @6:51 No biggie.
	6:51pm P-90: Oh, she’s “Kash” for short, that’s cool
	🤖 ♥ 6:53pm DanFA: Time to call my congressmembers.
	🤖 ♥ 6:53pm MarciB: My teacher shared that she spends every New Years Day going thru online data brokers and requesting her info to be removed. This lasts for only a year, unfortunately.
	6:53pm P-90: We want that whole rant next week, keep it warm for us
	🤖 ♥ 6:54pm Webhamster Henry: Yeep! This looks like another for the Techtonic library!
	🤖 ♥ 6:55pm Wendy del Formaggio: ↳ tim @6:51 Please tell me more about Blood in the Machine. I was cooking and missed something...
	🤖 ♥ 6:55pm DanFA: Make sure to like and subscribe, hit the bell as well.
	♥ 6:56pm maurer: Preach!!!
	🤖 ♥ 6:56pm Wendy del Formaggio: ↳ Webhamster Henry @6:54 I just requested it from my public library. They'll probably buy it because they usually do when I request things, esp new things. :-)
	6:56pm chresti: Yes can’t wait for the rant! Thanks Mark and Kash!
	🤖 ♥ 6:56pm MarciB: ↳ Wendy del Formaggio @6:55 Jumping in here :) I just got it from my library - so far it's great and Mark's interview was illuminating
	🤖 ♥ 6:56pm tim: ↳ Wendy del Formaggio @6:55 It’s a book featured two episodes ago that explores Ludditism wfmu.org...
	🤖 ♥ 6:57pm Webhamster Henry: If you buy Techtonic featured books, you can Avoid Amazon™ with bookshop.org
	🤖 ♥ 6:57pm tim: ↳ tim @6:56 It’s a great interview too!
	🤖 ♥ 6:57pm DanFA: ↳ Wendy del Formaggio @6:56 Public library: "god, Wendy is requesting another tech dystopian book."
	🤖 ♥ 6:57pm Wendy del Formaggio: ↳ tim @6:56 Oh right! That was a great episode. Requesting it now...
	♥ 6:57pm JohnEBGood: Go go go! Thanks Mark : )
	6:57pm Allen: Mark I really appreciate you and this show as much as it scares the living crap out of me every week
	6:57pm morphe': Thanks MH -> A Peoples's world or an electronic Gulag ????
	🤖 ♥ 6:57pm Wendy del Formaggio: ↳ DanFA @6:57 No, they love it! :-D We ARE talking about librarians, you know.
	🤖 ♥ 6:58pm Webhamster Henry: Your Face Is Belong To Us!
	🤖 ♥ 6:58pm tim: Thanks, Mark! Keep on and keep going!
	🤖 ♥ 6:58pm Wendy del Formaggio: Lots of love for Mark Hurst!
	🤖 ♥ 6:58pm Bas NL: Thanks Mark! Thanks Kashmir!
	6:58pm morphe': ps Pledge $100.00 for 3 Tshirts or
	6:58pm P-90: “faceprints” sounds like a term from a dystopian science fiction book
	🤖 ♥ 6:59pm chris in the redwoods: thanks, Mark. great interview! holy moly.
	6:59pm Bea: Great interview, Mark!
	🤖 ♥ 6:59pm MarciB: How much do we have to pledge to get a pumpkin, radio etc ?
	🤖 ♥ 6:59pm tim: ↳ MarciB @6:59 Any amount large or small!
	🤖 ♥ 7:00pm Wendy del Formaggio: ↳ MarciB @6:59 MarciB, pledge now and you'll get a pumpkin. Pledge as a swag-for-lifer and you'll get a radio, too.
	7:00pm Rolando: I’m struggling to see a way out of this mess,
	🤖 ♥ 7:00pm chris in the redwoods: ↳ MarciB @6:59 anything gets a pumpkin. radio is for Swag for Life pledge. anything now or selected to Mark gets you the robot.
	🤖 ♥ 7:00pm MarciB: Hmm, I pledged but no badges ;(
	🤖 ♥ 7:00pm Wendy del Formaggio: ↳ MarciB @7:00 If you JUST pledged, it might take a few minutes.
	🤖 ♥ 7:01pm MarciB: Thanks all and thanks Mark!
	🤖 ♥ 7:01pm chris in the redwoods: ↳ MarciB @7:00 may take a minute :) you're awesome!
	🤖 ♥ 7:02pm tim: ↳ MarciB @7:00 Marci, if it doesn’t show soon, email Joe McGasko. My pumpkin hasn’t shown up yet either. I’ve been forgetting to email.

Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from October 30, 2023

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Conversations with creators and thinkers who are charting the way forward in a tech-saturated society. Tech, community, video games, and whatever else is next.

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Upcoming events:

Mon. Apr 22nd, 6pm - 7pm: Eve Herold, author, "Robots and the People Who Love Them" (More info...)
Robots are now being designed to form relationships with humans. Robotic baby seals are appearing in nursing homes, while teaching robots are showing up in classrooms. Mark will explore our emerging robot dystopia with Eve Herold, author of "Robots and the People Who Love Them: Holding On to Our Humanity in an Age of Social Robots."

October 30, 2023: Facial recognition w/Kashmir Hill, author, "Your Face Belongs to Us"

Listen to this show: MP3 - 128K | Pop-up listen Pop-up player!

Today: Discussing facial recognition with Kashmir Hill, author, “Your Face Belongs to Us”

• Your Face Belongs to Us: A Secretive Startup’s Quest to End Privacy as We Know It, by Kashmir Hill, published by Random House

• Kashmir Hill is a tech reporter at the New York Times.

• Clearview AI, the company featured in Hill’s book

• Your Face May Soon Be Your Ticket. Not Everyone Is Smiling (NYT, Oct 13, 2023): “Facial recognition software is speeding up check-in at airports, cruise ships and theme parks, but experts worry about risks to security and privacy.”

• Reflectacles, eyewear that is “designed to fool facial recognition systems that use infrared for illumination and systems using 3D infrared mapping/scanning.”

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PAST EPISODES: techtonic.fm lists recent Techtonic shows.

PODCAST: Subscribe to the Techtonic podcast

Artist	Track	Approx. start time
Facial recognition w/Kashmir Hill, author, "Your Face Belongs to Us"
Game Boy Tune	Tomaš Dvořák "Tomaš Dvořák" by "Game Boy Tune"
	Mark's intro "Mark's intro"
	Interview with Kashmir Hill "Interview with Kashmir Hill"	0:03:28 (MP3 \| Pop-up)
	Mark's comments "Mark's comments"	0:45:45 (MP3 \| Pop-up)
Zero Wing	All Your Base Are Belong To Us	0:55:05 (MP3 \| Pop-up)

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Listener comments!
	🤖 ♥ 6:00pm ultradamno: Mark! Techtonkies!
	6:00pm Bea: Good evening, Mark!
	6:01pm Lieutenant Lambrusco: Love this theme music - hey all
	🤖 ♥ 6:01pm DanFA: Hello Mark Hearse. I've been looking forward to someday hearing Kashmir Hill on this program. One of my favorite tech journalists to follow.
	6:01pm chresti: Hi Mark and techtoniacs !
	6:01pm Rolando: Greetings my friends, I’m walking to work, listening to the show
	🤖 ♥ 6:03pm DanFA: Dan "The Man" Bodah
	🤖 ♥ 6:04pm Tech Bro Tim: Alright all you pencilnecks. I HAVE SEEN THE LIGHT. I am no longer a big tech skeptic, a privacy worrier and a social media avoider. I get sick of being a thousandaire! I’M TECH BRO NOW, YOU WEENIES! Screw your privacy mwah hah hah! I got crypto up the ying yang now! Mwah - hah - hah! Join my new social media platform #imnotaloseranymore.com bwah-hah-hah!
	🤖 ♥ 6:05pm DanFA: ↳ Tech Bro Tim @6:04 This your Halloween costume?
	🤖 ♥ 6:06pm Tech Bro Tim: ↳ DanFA @6:05 It’s my new look. I had my AI minion order from Amazon. I got it delivered in 3 minutes!
	🤖 ♥ 6:07pm MarciB: This book was terrifying (but really well done)
	🤖 ♥ 6:07pm Wendy del Formaggio: Hello Mark and friends! Very psyched about this interview. What a bunch of creepy shit, right in time for the holiday.
	6:07pm Rolando: Welcome to the team Tech bro Tim, Mark our fearless leader will help us all stay on the straight and narrow path that leads to freedom
	♥ 6:08pm Mark Hurst: @ultra @Bea @Lambrusco @DanFA @chresti @Rolando @TechBroTim @Marci @Wendy thanks to all of you for being here!
	🤖 ♥ 6:09pm Wendy del Formaggio: Ooh! I'm glad we're talking about Venmo. It's always made me really uneasy but I've not done the research to articulate why.
	🤖 ♥ 6:09pm DanFA: My local Girl Scouts chapter was selling cookies using venmo.
	🤖 ♥ 6:09pm ultradamno: Isn't that how Matt Gaetz got found out?
	♥ 6:10pm Mark Hurst: ↳ Tech Bro Tim @6:06 dude, Tim, yer lookin' awwwesome
	6:10pm P-90: Hi Mark! And: regular Techtonic listeners may want to check out Cory Doctorow’s latest (brand new!) piece about the “enshitification” of Facebook and what Zuck (and other digital oligarchs) are really up to. Connects directly to so much we’ve heard on the show. https://pluralistic.net/2023/10/30/markets-remaining-irrational/#steins-law
	♥ 6:10pm Mark Hurst: ↳ Wendy del Formaggio @6:09 Yep Venmo was publishing everyone's transaction data publicly - because of course it did - until the company got enough bad PR that they edged away from it.
	🤖 ♥ 6:12pm MarciB: ↳ P-90 @6:10 Thanks P-90!
	♥ 6:12pm mndave: Speaking of faces, the CV AI founder has one, and I have two fists, and
	♥ 6:12pm dale: saw a microsoft start homepage article about best cosplay costumes. clicked on it and there was a friend and the photo was from her facebook page. she had no idea. but we should ALL know we don't own our images.
	🤖 ♥ 6:12pm tim: Damn! This interview has already back to earth. I sucked as a tech bro.
	♥ 6:12pm Mark Hurst: ↳ P-90 @6:10 Good pointer, P-90, thanks. Listeners might also like to hear Cory's most recent Techtonic interview, from March - in which we talk about (what I have to call for FCC reasons) "enfecalization": www.wfmu.org...
	🤖 ♥ 6:13pm Bas NL: Hi Mark! All!
	🤖 ♥ 6:14pm chris in the redwoods: isn't scraping what search engines do? hi, Mark and everyone!
	♥ 6:14pm Mark Hurst: Hi Bas! Welcome.
	♥ 6:15pm Mark Hurst: ↳ chris in the redwoods @6:14 That's a good point - search engines all have scrapers (or "webcrawlers," the more polite term) - historically mostly focused on text. One difference here is that it's not just text content of HTML pages but people's biometrics (faces) taken from their personal photos (say on Instagram or wherever) that they might have expected to be mostly private.
	🤖 ♥ 6:16pm chris in the redwoods: ↳ Mark Hurst @6:15 gotcha. thanks, Mark.
	♥ 6:16pm mndave: ↳ Mark Hurst @6:15 And your previous episode on CV AI educated me on how wrong they are, particularly with POC.
	♥ 6:18pm mndave: ↳ mndave @6:16 Or maybe that was lexis-nexis and the other data brokers. It's tough to keep tabs on evil.
	♥ 6:21pm Mark Hurst: ↳ mndave @6:18 Yep - lots of cross-pollination of bad ideas across the tech industry.
	🤖 ♥ 6:23pm DanFA: I'm more concerned about corporations tracking me than the government.
	♥ 6:26pm Ciggy: 1). Hoan Ton-That says, what he’s evolved into around facial recognition technology, is that what the company is selling — this power for police officers to identify criminal suspects, to solve crimes — is the best possible use of facial recognition technology. That they are making the world safer, more secure. It’s being used to rescue children.
	♥ 6:27pm Ciggy: 2). Clearview definitely pushes that onus to police departments in saying, “We’re just providing the technology for them to use. They should never arrest somebody based on a Clearview match alone and that they need to do more investigating.” I think, for us as a society, there’s just a lot to evaluate here. I’ve talked to a lot of officers who, yeah, they’ve solved crimes with Clearview AI as a starting point. And horrific things — abuse of children.
	♥ 6:27pm Ciggy: 3). “Everyone in America is going to have the Clearview AI app on their phone. The moms of America are going to use this to protect their children.” And he thought he was going to make a ton of money off of Clearview AI. He said, “It’s going to be the new Google. The way you talk about Googling someone, you’re going to talk about Clearviewing their face.”
	♥ 6:28pm Ciggy: Always based on children
	🤖 ♥ 6:28pm tim: Man, this is a bummer but I really appreciate Kashmir’s research and dedication to the subject.
	6:29pm Saltonstall: I live in Chicago. BIPA has paid my spouse well over $2000… That said, I’d prefer it was zero… the money is nice, but her image is already out there.
	♥ 6:30pm Mark Hurst: ↳ Saltonstall @6:29 Interesting! I wasn't aware there were cash payments involved as well.
	♥ 6:35pm Ciggy: Is Clearview Ai related to Clear? "We’re an identity company that makes experiences safer and easier wherever you live, work, and travel."
	♥ 6:36pm Jeff Golick: Thanks for this, Mark. I find that the size of these data pools -- the extent of the information gathered -- is really hard to comprehend.
	🤖 ♥ 6:36pm tim: I’m probably phrasing this incorrectly but has the been any academic consensus about ethics being taught in computer engineering or information technology curriculums?
	♥ 6:36pm Mark Hurst: ↳ Ciggy @6:35 Clear is different from Clearview AI. Both surveillance-related, both claiming to keep people safe, but different companies.
	♥ 6:37pm Mark Hurst: ↳ Jeff Golick @6:36 Exactly. If people understood what it means that Clearview has scraped 30 billion identifying photos, people would be a lot more freaked out / outraged.
	♥ 6:38pm Mark Hurst: ↳ tim @6:36 A few CS curricula are starting to add in a required ethics course... not sure how that's going to make Silicon Valley, in its current form, any less unethical..
	6:39pm Rolando: No !!! The argument that it makes us safer is not a valid argument and that’s how all these things slip in. Just No !!!
	🤖 ♥ 6:40pm DanFA: No boss, I swear I wasn't buying spam at 3 in the morning.
	🤖 ♥ 6:41pm DanFA: Oh dear
	🤖 ♥ 6:42pm tim: ↳ Mark Hurst @6:38 Sure. I have no doubt it wouldn’t make a difference in Silicon Valley. This is a huge generalization but it seems that ethics is a foreign concept in this line of work.
	🤖 ♥ 6:44pm ultradamno: ...or are a juror in a case involving someone who would like to apply pressure against you
	🤖 ♥ 6:44pm MarciB: No privacy for you or you or you!
	6:45pm chresti: I’m going to start wearing clown makeup in public
	🤖 ♥ 6:46pm Wendy del Formaggio: ↳ DanFA @6:23 @DanFA: I mostly agree, except being a Jew, I don't have to look back very far to see why the government tracking me is also extremely dangerous. I have the privilege NOW of appearing white and middle-class and "adequately" female-presenting. But, that may not always be true, or keep me safe. It's worse for POC, trans folks, Muslims, etc.
	🤖 ♥ 6:47pm Wendy del Formaggio: ↳ chresti @6:45 O M G yes please. We should all start doing that. Public clown makeup: it's not just for Juggalos anymore!
	🤖 ♥ 6:48pm ultradamno: They Follow, the sequel to It Follows, was announced today, probably won't be scarier than this...
	🤖 ♥ 6:48pm MarciB: I wish facial rec was limited to genealogy and archival research only. Alas...
	🤖 ♥ 6:49pm DanFA: ↳ Wendy del Formaggio @6:46 Yes, excellent point. I'm not comfortable with either tracking anyone, though corporations at this point seem to be more pernicious than government. And some corporations have basically bought the government as in the case with Elon Musk as evident in Ronan Farrow's latest piece.
	🤖 ♥ 6:49pm Wendy del Formaggio: I totally want to read this and will request it from the library. I'll also brace myself.
	🤖 ♥ 6:49pm DanFA: ↳ Wendy del Formaggio @6:47 Why so serious?
	🤖 ♥ 6:49pm Wendy del Formaggio: ↳ DanFA @6:49 True.
	🤖 ♥ 6:50pm tim: Great interview, Mark! Another book I’m going to make a purchase request at the library if it already in.
	🤖 ♥ 6:50pm Wendy del Formaggio: ↳ DanFA @6:49 About what? Public clown makeup?
	🤖 ♥ 6:50pm DanFA: ↳ Wendy del Formaggio @6:50 Yes. It's a line by the Joker in Dark Knight. Not a good movie.
	🤖 ♥ 6:51pm tim: In kind of heartening news, when I went to request Blood In The Machine from the library, both copies were checked out and there was a small queue for it!
	🤖 ♥ 6:51pm Wendy del Formaggio: ↳ DanFA @6:50 Oh! I'm sorry. Your reference went way over my head.
	🤖 ♥ 6:51pm DanFA: This is why I don't leave my house.
	🤖 ♥ 6:51pm MarciB: I just took a privacy certification course thru the industry group I belong to. I was pretty well-versed in some of the horrors shared (thanks to this show). My colleagues were totally shocked.
	🤖 ♥ 6:51pm DanFA: ↳ Wendy del Formaggio @6:51 No biggie.
	6:51pm P-90: Oh, she’s “Kash” for short, that’s cool
	🤖 ♥ 6:53pm DanFA: Time to call my congressmembers.
	🤖 ♥ 6:53pm MarciB: My teacher shared that she spends every New Years Day going thru online data brokers and requesting her info to be removed. This lasts for only a year, unfortunately.
	6:53pm P-90: We want that whole rant next week, keep it warm for us
	🤖 ♥ 6:54pm Webhamster Henry: Yeep! This looks like another for the Techtonic library!
	🤖 ♥ 6:55pm Wendy del Formaggio: ↳ tim @6:51 Please tell me more about Blood in the Machine. I was cooking and missed something...
	🤖 ♥ 6:55pm DanFA: Make sure to like and subscribe, hit the bell as well.
	♥ 6:56pm maurer: Preach!!!
	🤖 ♥ 6:56pm Wendy del Formaggio: ↳ Webhamster Henry @6:54 I just requested it from my public library. They'll probably buy it because they usually do when I request things, esp new things. :-)
	6:56pm chresti: Yes can’t wait for the rant! Thanks Mark and Kash!
	🤖 ♥ 6:56pm MarciB: ↳ Wendy del Formaggio @6:55 Jumping in here :) I just got it from my library - so far it's great and Mark's interview was illuminating
	🤖 ♥ 6:56pm tim: ↳ Wendy del Formaggio @6:55 It’s a book featured two episodes ago that explores Ludditism wfmu.org...
	🤖 ♥ 6:57pm Webhamster Henry: If you buy Techtonic featured books, you can Avoid Amazon™ with bookshop.org
	🤖 ♥ 6:57pm tim: ↳ tim @6:56 It’s a great interview too!
	🤖 ♥ 6:57pm DanFA: ↳ Wendy del Formaggio @6:56 Public library: "god, Wendy is requesting another tech dystopian book."
	🤖 ♥ 6:57pm Wendy del Formaggio: ↳ tim @6:56 Oh right! That was a great episode. Requesting it now...
	♥ 6:57pm JohnEBGood: Go go go! Thanks Mark : )
	6:57pm Allen: Mark I really appreciate you and this show as much as it scares the living crap out of me every week
	6:57pm morphe': Thanks MH -> A Peoples's world or an electronic Gulag ????
	🤖 ♥ 6:57pm Wendy del Formaggio: ↳ DanFA @6:57 No, they love it! :-D We ARE talking about librarians, you know.
	🤖 ♥ 6:58pm Webhamster Henry: Your Face Is Belong To Us!
	🤖 ♥ 6:58pm tim: Thanks, Mark! Keep on and keep going!
	🤖 ♥ 6:58pm Wendy del Formaggio: Lots of love for Mark Hurst!
	🤖 ♥ 6:58pm Bas NL: Thanks Mark! Thanks Kashmir!
	6:58pm morphe': ps Pledge $100.00 for 3 Tshirts or
	6:58pm P-90: “faceprints” sounds like a term from a dystopian science fiction book
	🤖 ♥ 6:59pm chris in the redwoods: thanks, Mark. great interview! holy moly.
	6:59pm Bea: Great interview, Mark!
	🤖 ♥ 6:59pm MarciB: How much do we have to pledge to get a pumpkin, radio etc ?
	🤖 ♥ 6:59pm tim: ↳ MarciB @6:59 Any amount large or small!
	🤖 ♥ 7:00pm Wendy del Formaggio: ↳ MarciB @6:59 MarciB, pledge now and you'll get a pumpkin. Pledge as a swag-for-lifer and you'll get a radio, too.
	7:00pm Rolando: I’m struggling to see a way out of this mess,
	🤖 ♥ 7:00pm chris in the redwoods: ↳ MarciB @6:59 anything gets a pumpkin. radio is for Swag for Life pledge. anything now or selected to Mark gets you the robot.
	🤖 ♥ 7:00pm MarciB: Hmm, I pledged but no badges ;(
	🤖 ♥ 7:00pm Wendy del Formaggio: ↳ MarciB @7:00 If you JUST pledged, it might take a few minutes.
	🤖 ♥ 7:01pm MarciB: Thanks all and thanks Mark!
	🤖 ♥ 7:01pm chris in the redwoods: ↳ MarciB @7:00 may take a minute :) you're awesome!
	🤖 ♥ 7:02pm tim: ↳ MarciB @7:00 Marci, if it doesn’t show soon, email Joe McGasko. My pumpkin hasn’t shown up yet either. I’ve been forgetting to email.

Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from October 30, 2023

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