Favoriting Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from February 13, 2023 Favoriting

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Conversations with creators and thinkers who are charting the way forward in a tech-saturated society. Tech, community, video games, and whatever else is next.

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Favoriting February 13, 2023: Susan Linn, author, "Who's Raising the Kids?"

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Playlist image Favoriting

Today: Susan Linn, author, “Who’s Raising the Kids? Big Tech, Big Business, and the Lives of Children”

Who’s Raising the Kids?, by Susan Linn, published by The New Press (see also Indiebound)

SusanLinn.net, author site

Fair Play, originally called Campaign for a Commercial-Free Childhood (CCFC)

Related news articles

Epic Games to Pay $520 Million Over Children’s Privacy and Trickery Charges (by Natasha Singer, NYT, Dec 19, 2022): “The creator of Fortnite and other popular games violated children’s privacy and duped millions of users into unwanted purchases, federal regulators said.”

Children’s Groups Want F.T.C. to Ban ‘Unfair’ Online Manipulation of Kids (by Natasha Singer, NYT, Nov 17, 2022): “Children’s privacy and health experts pressed regulators to prohibit video games and social networks from using attention-hacking techniques on youngsters.”

How Google Took Over the Classroom (by Natasha Singer, NYT, May 13, 2017) – a classic article from 2017 covering Google's early foray into schools. “The tech giant is transforming public education with low-cost laptops and free apps. But schools may be giving Google more than they are getting.”

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Artist Track Images Approx. start time
  Susan Linn, author, "Who's Raising the Kids? Big Tech, Big Business, and the Lives of Children"
Tomaš Dvořák  Game Boy Tune   Favoriting
Favoriting
 
  Mark's intro  
Favoriting
 
  Interview with Susan Linn  
Favoriting
0:04:05 (MP3 | Pop-up)
  Mark's comments  
Favoriting
0:40:55 (MP3 | Pop-up)
Pink Tiles  Internet   Favoriting   0:55:36 (MP3 | Pop-up)


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Listener comments!

Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:00pm
Handy Haversack:

Mark! Techyons!

Wish K8 were here for this one. Very much an angle she constantly tries to take in her teaching, much to the chagrin, confusion, and denial of many of the educational powers that be.
  6:00pm
David in London:

Evening Mark and all Technoids.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:00pm
ultradamno:

Mark! Techtonindergarteners!
  6:01pm
Rolando:

Greetings friends and earthlings
Avatar 6:01pm
Miss G:

HH, I'm sure you'll fill K8 in, with salient arrows for her quiver. My head is splitting but I know if I say "archive" it won't get done. Good evening Mark et al
  6:02pm
Carmichael:

Heya Markie Mark and His Techie Bunch.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:02pm
Handy Haversack:

↳ Miss G @6:01
Fletchers, bowyers, and archers of justice! Or at least of loaf.
Avatar 6:03pm
PolakSlovak:

↳ David in London @6:00
Hi David in London, also in London here! Happy to be listening live for once.
Avatar 6:04pm
Miss G:

↳ Handy Haversack @6:02
and for "the chillllddddrrrreen" (Simpsons) but actually, I'm not joking.
Avatar 6:05pm
Bas NL:

Hello Mark! Hello all!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:05pm
The Butterman:

High school teacher here, ask me anything about the effects of the hand held device on young people.
Avatar 6:05pm
herb.nyc:

Who’s raising the kids? Who’s on first?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:05pm
Handy Haversack:

ultradamno, David (up the Runzas!), Carmichael, Bas, Butterman, Miss G, all! Good to be here with you.
Avatar 6:06pm
herb.nyc:

Maybe by end of show joe will make Susan Linn the secretary of education.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:06pm
ultradamno:

Hiya Handy!
Avatar 6:08pm
Bas NL:

Hi Handy!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:08pm
Mark Hurst:

Hi all, thanks for joining in!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:08pm
DjLorraine:

Thanks Mark Hurst and Susan Linn for this topic of paramount importance
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:08pm
Mark Hurst:

@The Butterman I'm interested to hear about your experience generally if you want to post it here or email me (mark at wfmu dot org)
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:08pm
chresti:

Hi Mark and techtonicians!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:08pm
Handy Haversack:

↳ Bas NL @6:08
Bas, is that Girls in Synthesis show in Utrecht this week? I'm jealous!
  6:10pm
squidbeak:

Fascinating stuff, I’ll send this show to my son, see what he thinks.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:10pm
chresti:

How about television screens and early brain development?
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:10pm
ultradamno:

So these are babies that will marry their own cousins?
Avatar 6:11pm
Bas NL:

Hi Handy; no Girls in Synthesis was Nov 20th last year (great!!). I got The Cool Greenhouse on Wednesday and looking forward to that one!
  6:12pm
Rolando:

I have 4 kids, and it’s a real challenge dealing with technology and raising balanced kids, real people and friends are so important.
  6:13pm
KWilde:

I'll bet the engineer's kids don't use the devices
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:13pm
Webhamster Henry:

Hi Friends! My great uncle, Bert Claster, who came up with Romper Room, said of Sesame Street: "It teaches kids how to watch commercials"
Avatar 6:13pm
MarciB:

I'm forever grateful to my forward-thinking mom who limited our TV exposure as kids back in the 60s + 70s. She was very concerned about the effects back then. And was horrified that her grandkids were given phones at age 8
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:13pm
Handy Haversack:

↳ Bas NL @6:11
Right! Cool Greenhouse! I think I'm even jealouser! This is what I get for living in a sleepy backwater like New York City.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:14pm
Mark Hurst:

↳ chresti @6:10
Susan Linn wrote about kids & TV (among other topics) in her 2005 book "Consuming Kids: Protecting Our Children from the Onslaught of Marketing & Advertising."
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:14pm
Webhamster Henry:

My tech family is clearly on the producing side of the production/consumption divide.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:15pm
Mennlinn Rebarts:

Saw M3GAN this weekend--definitely a good Big Tech parable, especially in respect to its effects on children.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:15pm
Mark Hurst:

↳ MarciB @6:13
Cheers for your mom! Smart foresight.
Avatar 6:16pm
Bas NL:

↳ Handy Haversack @6:13
NYC. Too much to choose from..
Avatar 6:16pm
MarciB:

I don't know how parents do it. We were allowed to read to our heart's content (actual print books) but screen time - not so much. But how do you handle that now? It must be a constant struggle...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:17pm
Handy Haversack:

I was ... not limited in terms of TV exposure after my mom died when I was six. My dad always complained that my one friend whose parents didn't let him watch TV would come over and want only to watch TV the whole time ...
Avatar 6:17pm
MarciB:

↳ Mark Hurst @6:15
Thanks Mark. Mom was a feminist too!
  6:17pm
David in London:

It didn’t play Iggy Pop’s ‘I’m Bored’? Disappointing.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:18pm
ultradamno:

Well, at least it doesn't say "only boring people get bored"....that's just insufferable
  6:19pm
Smacky:

Corporate values have replaced democratic values...
Avatar 6:20pm
herb.nyc:

Consumption, capitalism,…oh boy is this a super hard problem.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:24pm
Webhamster Henry:

Nothing particularly new here, except for the increased voraciousness of the companies and the eye-gluing powers of the tech.
Relevant reading from the past:
en.wikipedia.org...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:24pm
Juli:

Yes exactky this rn
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:25pm
chris in the redwoods:

love the ob/gyn pamphlet idea! will shop that one around... :)
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:25pm
Ken From Hyde Park:

Goo evening, Mark and techtokinder!
  6:25pm
Rolando:

Schools somehow imagine the are the parent “loco parentus” and we have lost / loosing Chistian values, you get the desires of your heart, people choose money, so do businesses.
Avatar 6:26pm
PolakSlovak:

↳ chris in the redwoods @6:25
Just about to say the same thing. What an excellent idea, pamphlet at the ob/gyn1
Avatar 6:26pm
herb.nyc:

(Aside- yest NPR Reveal program was about teaching kids to read. There’s bad methods out there)
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:26pm
Juli:

A 14 year old killed herself this week due to TikTok bullying after she was beat up at school::the schools seem to care about bullying
  6:26pm
sk8r2001:

give the kids skateboards!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:27pm
Mark Hurst:

↳ Webhamster Henry @6:24
Much love for Jerry Mander. I read his "In the Absence of the Sacred" which also had a lot to say about TV in indigenous communities.
Avatar 6:27pm
herb.nyc:

↳ Juli @6:26
Is this in NJ? I heard such a story yest
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:27pm
Juli:

Seem to not care about bullying: the internet these days is so scary ppl are insane and online
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:27pm
Handy Haversack:

↳ Webhamster Henry @6:24
But the difference in degree is significant, esp. in that decades of advertising and PR theory as well as neuroscience research are now deployed to fully gamify and addictify engagement with these devices -- and then monetize that engagement. What was bad a few decades ago when those kids whose families could afford one were sitting too close to the TV is a toxic blossom now, and they're giving the stuff away.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:27pm
Webhamster Henry:

↳ chris in the redwoods @6:25
All the services wanted you to be completely dependent on their portal!
Avatar 6:28pm
Miss G:

I love the idea of pamphlets in the ob-gyn. (I have to say though, that so many dr's offices are scooped up by conglomerates, profit-making, and so then I sit there in the office watching a screen with "health tips" which are actually Big Pharma. . .)
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:28pm
Juli:

↳ herb.nyc @6:27
I didn;t see what state its in but it was national news:(
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:28pm
DjLorraine:

↳ herb.nyc @6:27
Yes NJ
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:28pm
Mark Hurst:

↳ chris in the redwoods @6:25
Let us all know if you get any interest - I agree, it's a worthy idea.
  6:28pm
yippie:

i like to play Math Rabbit
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:29pm
Handy Haversack:

Bandcamp: An Epic Company
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:29pm
Webhamster Henry:

↳ Handy Haversack @6:27
I suppose the generation that was glued on TVs could only create even more addictive tech! "What are you talking about, this water?" -- a fish.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:29pm
Mark Hurst:

↳ Handy Haversack @6:29
exactly
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:30pm
Juli:

::::::


;;;;;


The issues in todays world are about bullying and being better than one another: this is the norm and ppl in power follow right along w what is cool:::they want to be cool" so they want money
Avatar 6:30pm
Miss G:

And thank you Susan Linn for speaking systemically instead of "blaming the parents." It's similar (to me) of people who 20 years ago gave me books of tips on how to reduce my energy consumption but when I would mention big hogs out there, they would say "well, what can you do. . ."
  6:31pm
Smacky:

School's now competition bootcamp
  6:32pm
Lerch:

It's so effing hard to navigate this stuff with kids. It makes me so disheartened.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:32pm
Handy Haversack:

↳ Webhamster Henry @6:29
Well, I'd lay blame in a much narrower capitalist class who have decided on total extraction and growth at any cost as the only possible ethos. The "generations" making the tech are also workers and also exploited, just like munitions workers. I don't think there was anything inevitable about it -- except in that capitalism always reaches for its own telos: total monetization.
  6:32pm
harangued:

Why, Mark, are you repeating everything she is saying in her responses. She's perfectly clear. We understand her. Ask the next question instead. Please.
  6:32pm
Rolando:

I work with and often against teachers! They so readily buy into technology believing it will improve their teaching! I often have to bush back and say no!!!! I am very thankful to mark’s ideologies and ideas around this subject
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:32pm
Webhamster Henry:

↳ yippie @6:28
My son was trying to learn multiplication tables from Timez Attack, but instead, he got hooked on how it was doing its graphics (though Unity) and got into 3d Modeling and game writing on Unity, and we took him up to the the Unity Conference in Montreal at the age of 13.
  6:33pm
chresti:

Like old cereal ads on Saturday morning cartoons on tv-tell your mom to buy wheetios, etc
Avatar 6:33pm
herb.nyc:

↳ Miss G @6:30
I clicked “very much agreed”
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:34pm
Juli:

↳ Lerch @6:32
I would be very abnormal w my children::not let them have social media talk to them daily about what life is and bullying and bringing them places to get them out of the house
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:34pm
DjLorraine:

Super bowl ads involving promoting gambling and “shop like a billionaire“ were obvious. Ugh
  6:35pm
yippie:

when i was kid i always wondered how much Michael Jordan needed to pay to get his face on the wheeties box
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:35pm
Webhamster Henry:

Were there any crypto ads at the SB this year?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:35pm
Juli:

↳ DjLorraine @6:34
The media and the celebrities are guilty of a ending world:::the greed should not be seen as cool
Avatar 6:35pm
PolakSlovak:

Susan Linn's comment on soothing babies with devices really hits hard.
On a bus one day, saw a mom play a crap dub-step version of "wheels on the bus," and kept repeating this song over, and over again the entire bus ride. It was clearly indoctrinating, and brainwashing the child that "this is good" (good music, good content, etc.). It's hard to witness this, such a helpless feeling.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:36pm
The Butterman:

↳ Mark Hurst @6:08
Oh I sent ya a brief e-mail.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:37pm
Juli:

Teach the children programming and computer programs like photoshop::develop uniqueness: creativity: being different is GOOD: Others can eat it lol
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:37pm
Franco Twinkie:

Excuse me for laughing. I just walked in the door, and the first thing I hear is some kids get to fly around on clouds and other kids have to trudge through the dirt!? Man, this whole thing is so fucked up. Monsters rule the world and there's nothing anyone can do about it. Oy, I need a nap.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:37pm
Mark Hurst:

↳ The Butterman @6:36
thx!
Avatar 6:38pm
herb.nyc:

Good point- one feels annoyed when you call them and yr on yr cellphone. The Vanishing NY (?) author talked about that annoyed look when a person is walking and using a cellphone and yr in the way (yr not!)
Avatar 6:38pm
Miss G:

↳ Franco Twinkie @6:37
*laughing* Franco Twinkie
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:38pm
The Butterman:

Butterboy is NOT learning multiplication the old fashioned way, By just being bad at it.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:38pm
Mark Hurst:

↳ herb.nyc @6:38
Yep one of my favorite parts of the Jeremiah Moss interview from 2019 - www.wfmu.org...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:39pm
Juli:

↳ herb.nyc @6:38
I smile at ppl on the street.
Imagine ppl were kind: maybe the world would be okay
  6:40pm
Carmichael:

The issue these days is the parenting. Young parents grew up with and still are glued to their cell phone. Hard to teach a child otherwise when you’re leading by example.
  6:40pm
yippie:

the first season of Mr Rogers is in black and white and he has Bruce haack come on with his musical computer. the kids were SUPER excited
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:41pm
Juli:

↳ Carmichael @6:40
the issue today is parenting and bullying:::all leads to greed
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:41pm
PaulRobeson1923:

Hi Hi Hi Hi Hi
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:42pm
Juli:

If ppl werent obsessed w money and were obsessed w life and each other instead
Avatar 6:43pm
herb.nyc:

I just pulled out my AD NAUSEUM- A SURVIVOR’s GUIDE TO AMERICAN CONSUMER CULTURE. maybe there’s education issues in table of contents. Edited by Carrie McLaren and Jason Torchinsky, 2009
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:43pm
StringOFperils:

Good luck, big bad world. Time to read some music. Screen *0FF* Thanks, Mark and Susan.
Avatar 6:43pm
Miss G:

Thank you Susan, I've shared about your org since it began. This is a great interview for parents who are on board, to share with let's say their family members, who say "wha?"
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:43pm
ultradamno:

↳ Juli @6:42
Still, when they are obsessed with money, a cell phone will help occupy the child when the parents ditch it at an airport check-in www.msn.com...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:44pm
Bobby:

Great interview
Avatar 6:45pm
Miss G:

↳ Handy Haversack @6:00
*psst* HH off topic, way earlier we were talking about a film, I have to tell you that it is sort of terrible. But fun, if you have some friends over. I have to close my eyes five different ways to enjoy it)
  6:45pm
wind:

Great interview as usual! Ty Mark
Avatar 6:45pm
herb.nyc:

I’m gonna tell my neices and nephews and friends WITH children of this show. Wait, with or without kids- all should listen

Oh. Other chapters? Part 2!!!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:45pm
Handy Haversack:

↳ Miss G @6:45
Ha, gotcha! Finger to nose, wink!
Avatar 6:46pm
PolakSlovak:

Thank you Susan and thank you Mark. Incredible interview, on the edge of our seats the whole time. Truly, thank you!!
Avatar 6:46pm
herb.nyc:

Ah, that Campaigns for commercial-free… is in AD NAUSEUM book
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:47pm
Juli:

↳ ultradamno @6:43
Not even sure how to respond
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:47pm
Juli:

I would never let me kid on
Social Media
Avatar 6:49pm
Miss G:

I have to say though, that it's a social question. Back in the day, people my age swarmed to sign on to FB. And, I lost tons of friendly acquaintances, because I would not, and also play that farm game with them. But, do you think, I could in recent times say TOLDJA with Cambridge Analytica etc? No. Once again I'm the bad guy, too Holier Than Thou.
Avatar 6:49pm
herb.nyc:

“Maximal exploitation” sez mark. And to assuage their guilt, we can’t wait for zuck musk dorsey… to create charities
Avatar 6:50pm
Miss G:

YES MARK you GO!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:51pm
joe mulligan:

PREACH MARK!!!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:51pm
Handy Haversack:

↳ Miss G @6:49
It's a very tricky social space to navigate. I finally have my friends turning off their smartphones when they come over to my place. I can't even imagine knowing how to approach the idea of talking to them about how they raise their kids vis-a-vis tech. I mean, I was raised by wolves and don't have the best social skills anyway, but I have absolutely zero clue how to start conversations like THAT.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:51pm
Webhamster Henry:

Yeah! These companies are trying to replace Joe Camel!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:52pm
PaulRobeson1923:

Buy a gun for yer son, right away sir! Place a weapon in his hand, let his little mind expand- for the skills he learns today will someday pay sir
  6:52pm
wenzo:

Really tempted to get the book for my brother & cousins who have kids but idk. I don’t wanna guilt trip them. I feel like they get this stuff but idk.
  6:53pm
Quinn02:

We paid for Prodegy for a few months. My kid bugged me for it. Didn’t teach anything. He was already good at math
Avatar 6:53pm
Miss G:

Here's one I saved July 2022 www.nytimes.com...

A Cyberattack Illuminates the Shaky State of Student Privacy
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:53pm
joe mulligan:

↳ Webhamster Henry @6:51
So true Henry. so many have completely forgotten Joe Camel.
Avatar 6:53pm
brainiac:

I'm going full Howard Beale
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:53pm
joe mulligan:

There's a Joe Chemo page too. www.joechemo.org...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:54pm
Handy Haversack:

↳ joe mulligan @6:53
Ouch.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:54pm
Juli:

↳ wenzo @6:52
I posted things on social media::rarely do I bring up heavy things in person::: like on my own pages
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:55pm
Juli:

↳ wenzo @6:52
It doesnt win many friends lol
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:55pm
Webhamster Henry:

↳ joe mulligan @6:53
I'd walk a mile for a calomel! -- Chico Marx.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:55pm
Handy Haversack:

Thanks for another blazer, Mark! And thanks, Susan. Fantastic and important.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:56pm
listener 126464:

Great show, thanks Mark. Thanks Susan.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:56pm
Feldy:

Great topic today. Thanks Mark!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:56pm
Handy Haversack:

Mark's watch tells time! 'E's a witch! Burn 'im!
Avatar 6:57pm
Miss G:

Thanks again Mark Hurst and thank you Susan Linn will be buying your book in my independent Carytown book store. Thank you for the chat everyone!
Avatar 6:57pm
DerekPaco:

I listen to WFMU on my smart watch, my favourite piece of tech
  6:57pm
wenzo:

I didn’t know watches could tell time, when did this technology come out?!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:57pm
Webhamster Henry:

My friend's Apple watch freaks out when she waves her hands around.
  6:58pm
korakorakora:

In SF Kaiser does say that you should not introduce screens to your baby until after age 2, so it is not entirely out of the current conversation - my son is 1 and it is so hard to get people to understand why it is a big deal.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:58pm
Hörer Christoph:

I always do the same. Not telling people why you're on the phone is rude.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:58pm
Webhamster Henry:

I use WFMU to tell time.
Avatar 6:58pm
DerekPaco:

the only notifications I get on my watch are directions when I'm driving/cycling
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:58pm
Ken From Hyde Park:

Thanks, Mark & Susan. Back to Pokémon Go!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:58pm
chris in the redwoods:

thanks, Mark!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:58pm
ultradamno:

I have a swatch sistem 51....I wind it every day.
Avatar 6:59pm
DerekPaco:

oh wait, Siri keeps trying to help out when I'm teaching
  6:59pm
mr 6:

The victims of those fines don’t get the money so where does it go?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:00pm
Handy Haversack:

↳ Webhamster Henry @6:58
Yeah, pretty much here too.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:00pm
Mark Hurst:

Thanks, everyone!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:00pm
Ken From Hyde Park:

↳ Webhamster Henry @6:58
Same!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:01pm
chresti:

Thanks Mark!
Avatar 7:01pm
Bas NL:

Thanks Mark!
  11:06pm
?:

I want you to go to your window and shout: I'm mad as hell...
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