Options Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from August 26, 2019 Options

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Conversations with creators and thinkers who are charting the way forward in a tech-saturated society. Tech, community, video games, and whatever else is next.

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Mon. Aug 29th, 6pm - 7pm: Scott Williams guest hosts Techtonic

Options August 26, 2019: Jeremiah Moss, author, "Vanishing New York"

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This week: Jeremiah Moss, author, "Vanishing New York."


Jeremiah's Vanishing New York (blog)

Vanishing New York: How a Great City Lost Its Soul (book)

@jeremoss (Twitter)

#SaveNYC, "a grassroots, crowd-sourced, DIY movement to raise awareness and take action for protecting and preserving the diversity and uniqueness of the urban fabric in New York City" - run by Jeremiah.

Recent news:

The latest from Hong Kong, in the NYT (Aug 25)

Protestors in Hong Kong are cutting down facial recognition towers. (Jordan Sather, Aug 24)

On Amazon HQ2 in New York (Scott Galloway, Aug 23): "The greatest concentration of culture, grit, creativity, and higher learning ever assembled doesn’t need to give a handout to the wealthiest man in the world. He and most other people blessed with an extraordinary universe of options (the world) choose NYC and pay, vs. charge, to be here. For Mayor De Blasio this reflects an exceptional lack of understanding of his constituents and a general lack of self-awareness. The kind of deficit that leads to truly arrogant, ridiculous decisions. Like, I don't know, running for president."

- - -

Check out techtonic.fm for recent Techtonic interviews and Little Slice of Tech Pie segments.

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Artist Track Album Images Approx. start time
  Jeremiah Moss, author of the book "Vanishing New York: How a Great City Lost Its Soul" - and how smartphones contribute to the problem.
Tomaš Dvořák  Game Boy Tune   Options Machinarium Soundtrack 
  Mark's intro    
  Interview with Jeremiah Moss    
0:13:38 (Pop‑up)
  Your comments    
0:40:48 (Pop‑up)
Chris Stamey  Manhattan Melody (That's My New York)   Options New Songs for the 20th Century    0:53:28 (Pop‑up)

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Listener comments!

Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:01pm ultradamno:

Hello Mark! Techs-Ragers (chock full of Techtonium)!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:01pm Webhamster Henry:

New York is so Vanished. Even Mr. Moss' office is gone.
Avatar 🤖 6:02pm Bas NL:

Hi Mark! Vanishectonicans! (Don't try that one Mark..)
  6:03pm John from Florham park:

Hello fellow technoids
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:03pm Phillippe Bastille:

Hey Mark, other normal but suspicious people!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:03pm mariano:

Hey Mark, everyone! So... is this Dvořák related to the composer? Can't find anything online.
  6:03pm seedfriend:

Oh good! I’m catching the show live. How exciting!
  6:05pm Dave Miss:

Hello all from BK....not completely vanished yet
  6:08pm melinda:

Hi chums
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:08pm Webhamster Henry:

That Uighur show was really scary!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:08pm ultradamno:

Well, hopefully everything will work out for all the people "on both sides...and nobody gets killed"

Avatar 6:08pm Davee:

Hello world
  6:10pm ignatatus666:

The cameras
Avatar 6:10pm Davee:

George Orwell is saying "I told you so."
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:11pm ultradamno:

That's the problem with sending gangs of Triad thugs to beat protestors: violence begets violence.
Avatar 🤖 6:12pm Bas NL:

Rage against the Machine..
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:14pm chresti:

Hello Mark and technoggins!
  6:15pm ignatatus666:

I don’t have a television
Are they showing this news? Re:Hong Kong
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:16pm ultradamno:

Some. Vice News Tonight has kept on it.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:18pm Ken From Hyde Park:

To identify wackos with guns who may become the next mass shooters, the government plans to look at peoples' data. www.nyaprs.org... Innoncently named the SAFEHOME project, because why not?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:18pm Mark Hurst:

Hi all! @mariano, I don't know that Tomas Dvorak is related to the composer but I suppose it's possible!
  6:19pm gracegold:

thanks jeremiah for EVERYTHING you've done! so grateful for people like you.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:19pm Mark Hurst:

@ignatatus, there's an NYT story linked at left that gives a good recent update from HK.
  6:19pm geezerette:

L.A. is not L.A. either.
Avatar 🤖 6:20pm Bas NL:

Tomas Dvorak = floex.cz
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:20pm Carmichael:

Stick it to the Man! Boy, feels good to say that again ...
  6:20pm gracegold:

please please do you know anything about el quijote by the chelsea hotel?? not sure if this is live, but would be so happy if you could let us know!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:21pm chris:

SF is no longer SF, in the same way. Oakland is trying to remain Oakland, but its an uphill battle and signs are not good for that battle.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:21pm ultradamno:

Stick it to the bland!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:21pm Mark Hurst:

@gracegold, El Quijote closed last year: vanishingnewyork.blogspot.com...
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:22pm queems:

this is very interesting
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:22pm Mark Hurst:

Hi queems! Thanks.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:23pm queems:

hi mark!
  6:23pm geezerette:

What's shocking is the speed of this deadly sameness which I believe is global.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:23pm VincentNifigance:

Warhol told us so.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:23pm mariano:

I moved back home to New Orleans in 2017 after 20 years in NYC, and a big part of why I left had to do with the loss of soul. Almost everything I loved about the city vanished before my eyes, it was really heartbreaking, this feeling of things being taken away. It's happening here in NOLA too, sadly, though nowhere near at the same pace as NYC or San Francisco, where I also lived for a few years.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:24pm ultradamno:

There should be new post-punks; punks walking around with torn down surveillance posts.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:24pm Mark Hurst:

@mariano, I grew up in part in NOLA. Have been back a couple of times post-Katrina. And...yeah. Still rooting for New Orleans.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:24pm queems:

i lived in the city for 11 years (2006-2017) and even in that amount of time i still noticed this happening
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:24pm Webhamster Henry:

The Visible Hand of Stage IV Capitalism.
  6:24pm gracegold:

mark, do you know any new news about it? oh, how many memories since childhood i've had at el quijote with my dear family... oh, how i miss my home within this home.
  6:25pm geezerette:

Webham, precisely.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:26pm chresti:

LA is not the LA I knew before, and the LA that was before I was there was way different,..
  6:26pm geezerette:

I miss the Greek coffee shops.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:26pm Mark Hurst:

Will have to check next time I walk by there!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:27pm Webhamster Henry:

Did the NYC 7/11 play classical music to scare off the kids?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:27pm northguineahills:

Brooklyn is no longer Brooklyn (hence, why I left).
Avatar 6:27pm Davee:

Support small business!
  6:28pm P-90:

“City dwellers’ nostalgia for their suburban pasts...” Yechhhh.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:28pm Webhamster Henry:

Nw York's Gone (Brian Woodbury)
  6:28pm geezerette:

Chresti, "technoggins", !!! Love that!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:29pm Webhamster Henry:

Hey! We have "i" contact!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:29pm chresti:

Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:29pm DMcK:

I refer to this new generation of transplants as "colonists", and they do behave as such.
  6:30pm geezerette:

Oh god, reality is so depressing.

Avatar 🤖 6:30pm Bas NL:

I just went for a stroll through my humble town.. so many iZombies.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:30pm ultradamno:

You'd think every time Giuliani speaks people would rethink this suburbanizing of the city
  6:30pm ignatatus666:

What Jeremiah is talking about was very obvious when Times Square became Disney World.
I curse every time someone tells me they came to NYC and ate at TGIF,Applebee’s etc. I knew somewhere something very bad is going on.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:30pm chresti:

Does Mr. Moss have children?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:30pm mariano:

@Mark Hurst - oh that's cool, didn't realize you had roots in the area! One of NOLA's saving graces is that it's so corrupt and badly run that a lot of outside business interests wind up giving up in frustration. May it ever be thus!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:31pm ultradamno:

I preferred thinking of iZombie as the TV show.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:31pm chresti:

Hi geeze!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:31pm VincentNifigance:

@Mariano Vote Expose!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:32pm Mark Hurst:

@mariano oh yes. I took Louisiana history in 8th grade (state requirement) and it was fascinating - the sheer amount of corruption from the inception. Makes for an interesting middle school history class.
Avatar 🤖 6:32pm Fredericks:

Twiddling his thumbs for safety reason?
Avatar 🤖 6:32pm Bas NL:

We are one. Sameness is inevitable. We are iZombie.
  6:33pm Listener Robert:

So people walking who bump into this guy get indignant about it?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:34pm mariano:

Haha! Indeed, @VincentNifigance! I probably will end up voting for him. For those of you who missed our earlier exchange, I got a flyer the other day from a local candidate named Adonis Exposé. My first thought: only in New Orleans can a political candidate share a name with a volume of French erotica. @Mark Hurst: I'm reading a really juicy book called Empire of Sin, all about the history of vice and crime in late-19th-early-20th-century NOLA.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:34pm chresti:

The difference in LA, is that the crowd is on the freeway
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:34pm Webhamster Henry:

NYC has always been a collection of micro communities, enabled by the economies of weirdness scale. But it's hard to afford living there now.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:34pm ultradamno:

In the TV show (spoilers) the zombies are really the awake, empathetic ones...and the end up fleeing to an island.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:34pm VincentNifigance:

I used to be met with so much for bemusement for reading a book while walking down the street.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:35pm Mark Hurst:

@Robert - yes - listen to Catherine Price - www.wfmu.org... - who says something related - in an Uber, she didn't bury her face in a screen and the driver asked her - hey, is everything OK? Like she was crazy or something for not being hypnotized by a screen.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:36pm Mark Hurst:

@mariano, thanks for the book rec!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:37pm chresti:

Wow @ mariano@6:34
  6:38pm Sam:

You can’t let it get to you! If you’re the only one not looking at a phone, that means you’re the only one who’s not a LOSER. Don’t feel weird. Feel like the only young healthy person surrounded by dying corpses. Just feel sorry for them. And share a little laugh with yourself for how much insanely healthier you are for having real thoughts.
  6:38pm brandon:

I do the horse blinders too! I’ll close one eye In an elevator so I don’t have to see someone texting
  6:38pm P-90:

The dystopia where those who are NOT buried in their digital devices everywhere they go are the “creeps”... it really sounds like a science fiction story from 25 years ago. We’re catching up to our speculative nightmares faster than ever.
  6:39pm melinda:

I agree that nostalgia gets unfairly judged due to future fetishization.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:39pm Mark Hurst:

@Sam, well said! and @brandon & @P-90, yes!
  6:39pm seedfriend:

Not just NY
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:40pm VincentNifigance:

Starting to feel kind of hypocritical that I'm commenting on here when I should be devoting my undivided attention to this interview. Even those of us that bemoan this stuff should constantly be mindful of the level of our own engagement.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:40pm Webhamster Henry:

When I lived in NYC, I was a fan of old Vaudeville books because I kind of lived in the Vaudeville District. The whole culture got drained by the demands of mass media, so the theatres adapted or closed, and some of them were near me (3rd Ave 15th st). It took decades for that evidence to be knocked down, but now it's all gone.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:40pm Mark Hurst:

@Vincent, no worries, you can always listen to it again in the archives or podcast :)
  6:41pm P-90:

UWS! My home town
  6:41pm carrots:

i’ve heard all this before... that’s what bridges and tunnels are for.
Avatar 6:41pm Davee:

I hate chains
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:41pm VincentNifigance:

@MarkHurst Absolutely! Will do.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:41pm Webhamster Henry:

Which is to say, outside of a few relicts, that whole culture is not able to be evoked.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:43pm Webhamster Henry:

Mono culture is also promulgated by the consolidation of mass media.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:43pm chresti:

Sam, it's good to carry around a fake phone
Avatar 6:43pm Lordleaf:

“Not just NY“ true but no other city is like NYC. In other cities blandness has always been prevalent.
  6:44pm Sam:

Woody Allen should make a dystopian film about a guy and a girl who are the only two on a subway car not looking at phones, they’re actually aware, and they see cool things everyone else misses and then their eyes meet and it leads to a crazy subversive low-tech romance with plenty of blaring ragtime.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:45pm Webhamster Henry:

In Woodys case: guy: 80 years old, gal: 13 years old.
Avatar 🤖 6:45pm Fredericks:

If they think you have a phone the iZombies don't bump into you? or they don't get violent when you do collide?
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:46pm LCBD:

Wise Vincent!
Avatar 6:46pm Bic Lighter:

Jeremiah with a Jeremiad...
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:47pm Webhamster Henry:

Back when the street annoyances were boom boxes, some people wanted me to make a portable FM radio jammer.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:47pm ultradamno:

Maybe there should be an app that provides a proximity alert so you don't get bumped into while not paying attention to your surroundings in public.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:47pm melinda:

Good point Vincent. I sometimes feel conflicted too.
  6:47pm seedfriend:

Definitely no place like nyc big time
  6:47pm gracegold:

book about the izombies and neuroscience: The Shallows.
Avatar 🤖 6:48pm Fredericks:

Or are they Eye Zombies?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:48pm Franco Twinkie:

I have not been in NY in years. There are no more sofas for me to sleep on. However, I do go to San Francisco often. Well, all the problems of NY are in SF just on a smaller scale.
Avatar 6:49pm Bic Lighter:

iZombies are so fucking weird. I get seasick walking and texting. I think I feel almost physically ill even watching the phone addicts.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:49pm LCBD:

Wise Mark!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:49pm northguineahills:

I always step away (like in a door frame), when looking at my phone.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:49pm chresti:

The boom times
The I zombies hike on the trails, I've alerted a few to the tree in front of them
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:50pm Webhamster Henry:

You can use Siri et all pretty well and not stare at a phone. You need not stare to be distracted.
Avatar 6:50pm Bic Lighter:

I feel comfortable texting etc where I feel comfortable farting.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:50pm melinda:

So far I've never received a negative response from people involved with their screens while I'm not, like in a waiting room. Maybe they're just too distracted. Or they figure it's normal for the middle-aged to be staring into space.
  6:50pm brandon:

The artists that used to live in the village couldn’t afford it anymore because of the changes and moved to Williamsburg, Greenpoint... and then that became yuppie town and then I guess the artists moved east to bed stuy, Bushwick, Flatbush, but I think as long as the sort of subculture or artist world still exists that’s important. what scares me is if it disperses so much that it doesn’t exist and there is no place to go to see artistic things. comedy, music, alternative lifestyles etc.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:50pm Franco Twinkie:

I am a dying corpse. All the zombies are young and healthy....with great sneakers.
Avatar 🤖 6:51pm Fredericks:

1984? You'll get caught up in it for certain.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:51pm Webhamster Henry:

When I had an iPhone 1 (I'm an iPhone app developer remember?) I used to duck in a corner to look at a map, so people wouldn't be tempted to steal it!
  6:51pm Mike:

In like this program, but this conversation comes across to me as "I favor some change and not others, so they aren't the same." Speaking of Chinatown and Little Italy, yes, that was people conforming the city to their origins, which Jeremiah condemns when the NEW newcomers do the same. And yes, the OLD newcomers were seen as the end of society then too. Odd.

And to frame this as a NY issue is blind to the reality that this is the world.

One other thing. When I use my tablet to read the New York Times or Washington Post in the morning, it's only a new medium and a new speed not a new distraction.
Avatar 6:51pm Bic Lighter:

I'm thinking about a data jamming device
  6:52pm Wilson in SO:

Great episode. Terrifying. What happens to me is elevator contagion. One person pulls out their phone, and every other person pulls theirs out. I can see over shoulders they’re just quickly swiping through everything to see if anything is new, and usually just returning the phone to their pocket or purse and sighing before exiting.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:52pm Webhamster Henry:

@Brandon, they are moving here - the Mid Hudson Valley, the little Brooklyn of the North.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:52pm ultradamno:

Anthony Burgess wrote the right wing response: 1985, which blames everything on unions.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:52pm melinda:

@brandon I've heard that complaint from a NYC theater person, that the geographical fragmentation has made it really hard for people to congregate regularly.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:54pm mariano:

@Webmaster Henry: Yeah, I know so many people from the city who moved to places like Beacon, Cold Spring, Kingston, etc. Mainly when they started having kids. And who can blame them? I couldn't imagine raising a kid in the city these days, I could barely keep myself afloat and I'm kind of a workaholic.
  6:55pm P-90:

I’d rather live in the science fiction story in which someone named “Amazon Cuomo” is marked for death. Or at least ostracism and humiliation.
As someone said recently: “Damn, the WRONG Amazon is burning...”
  6:55pm JakeGould:

@Brandon: NYC nowadays doesn’t really have a downtown. Think about it.
Avatar 6:55pm Bic Lighter:

This is my fave daytime show
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:56pm chris:

word. thanks, Mark.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:56pm Franco Twinkie:

WFMU uber alles!
Avatar 🤖 6:56pm Bas NL:

Thanks Mark and Jeremiah!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:57pm listener 126464:

new Chris Stamey
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:57pm Mark Hurst:

Thanks, everyone! Great discussion tonight.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:58pm mariano:

Yes, thanks M&J, 'evening everyone!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:59pm listener 126464:

Django Haskins vocal
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:59pm chresti:

The real estate market and low wages, push people out of their homes, around these parts

Thanks Mark!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 7:00pm Webhamster Henry:

I thought there'd be a little talk about NYC based startups and their influence on real estate. After all, theat's WeWork in the Lord & Taylor buulding.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 7:00pm Webhamster Henry:

Thanks Mark!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:02pm Mark Hurst:

Thanks, Webham. Actually the Scott Galloway piece (linked at left) mentions the Lord & Taylor building. Apparently Amazon wants in on that, too...
Avatar 🤖 7:04pm Bas NL:

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