Options Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from November 8, 2021 Options

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Conversations with creators and thinkers who are charting the way forward in a tech-saturated society. Tech, community, video games, and whatever else is next.

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Options November 8, 2021: Tyson Yunkaporta, author, "Sand Talk"

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Tonight: Tyson Yunkaporta, author, Sand Talk: How Indigenous Thinking Can Save the World

Links:

Sand Talk on Indiebound

Tyson writing about van Gogh (Guardian essay from 2017): “There is a glorious pathos in the growth-based economic view of nature and eternity exemplified by Van Gogh’s seasonal works, similar to what you feel reading Shelley’s poem Ozymandias. It brings to mind the western mythical symbol of the snake eating its tail as a representation of eternity; a Dreaming that is anything but infinite, as this poor serpent ultimately can only consume and obliterate itself.”

• November is National American Indian Heritage Month: nativeamericanheritagemonth.gov

Washington Post on Wampanoags (Nov 4, 2021): “Long marginalized and misrepresented in U.S. history, the Wampanoags are bracing for the 400th anniversary of the first Pilgrim Thanksgiving in 1621.”

(Toxic YouTube) video of Microsoft Ignite intro, listing Native American tribes (Nov 2). See also Yascha Mounk's post on Microsoft racial-identity intros.

Also:

Henry Kissinger’s Last Crusade: Stopping Dangerous AI (Time magazine, Nov 5, 2021): Kissinger and his pal, former Google CEO Eric Schmidt, inform us that AI is a threat and only the world’s richest and most powerful monopolies can save us. (thx, Daniel)

• Speaking of Eric Schmidt, New York City’s mayor-elect Eric Adams was spotted with Eric Schmidt in a victory party on election night. Then he boasted to Miami’s mayor that he’ll take his first three paychecks as mayor in bitcoin. (more in Bloomberg)

Biden’s $1.2 Trillion Infrastructure Bill Hastens Beacons For Bicyclists And Pedestrians Enabling Detection By Connected Cars: “The more likely version of the future is deeply dystopian, says transport historian Peter Norton. Only the beacon-equipped will be spotted, he fears. Those choosing - say, for economic or privacy reasons - not to fit bicycle-to-vehicle beacons will be blamed for being hit by sensor-equipped cars, believes Norton, author of Autonorama, a new book which details the potential civil liberty issues that pedestrians and cyclists may face from the roll-out of driverless vehicles.” (thx, Michael)

• Not to be outdone by Zuck’s renaming (see image above), Elon Musk renamed his Twitter account - so, take with a planet-sized grain of salt - to “Lorde Edge,” which one of the Dogecoin cofounders noted is an anagram for “Elder Doge.” Whatever.

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Artist Track Album Label Comments Images Approx. start time
  Tyson Yunkaporta, author, "Sand Talk: How Indigenous Thinking Can Save the World"
Tomaš Dvořák  Game Boy Tune   Options Machinarium Soundtrack  N/A   
Options
 
  Mark's intro        
Options
 
  Interview with Tyson Yunkaporta        
Options
0:08:01 (MP3 | Pop‑up)
  Mark's comments        
Options
0:43:03 (MP3 | Pop‑up)
The Pink Tiles  Internet   Options #1 Fan  n/a  https://thepinktiles.bandcamp.com/album/1-fan-lp 
Options
0:55:20 (MP3 | Pop‑up)


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Listener comments!

Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:00pm ultradamno:

Mark! Techtanules!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:01pm ultradamno:

I get angrier every time I see that Meta commercial that clearly wants you to think it's for a children's museum
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:01pm spacecadet:

hello! stoked for the interview today!
  6:01pm David in London:

Evening Mark and all Technoids.
Avatar 👻 6:02pm Bas NL:

Hi Mark! Techtonicoids!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:02pm chresti:

Hi Mark and techtoniacs!
Avatar 👻 Swag For Life Member 6:02pm Handy Haversack:

Mark and all the Techyon Drives! The Techgin (well, Techrye) is poured, and I'm ready for some Techtonic. Excited for the show!

Deep in kittens over here, too, so comments might be sporadic and have lots of tiny holes in them.

Hey, ultradamno, David!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:02pm ultradamno:

Hiya Handy!
Avatar 6:03pm HyperDose:

We're here. Look at us!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:04pm tim from washington:

Hi Mark and everyone! Is this the way to the Metaverse? I'm having trouble finding it.
  6:04pm David in London:

Ultradamno, Handy, Bas, Chresti(kin’s): salutations all.
Avatar 👻 Swag For Life Member 6:04pm Ken From Hyde Park:

Hi, Mark. How ya Dune?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:04pm chresti:

Joy-zee
Avatar 👻 Swag For Life Member 6:04pm PaulRobeson1920:

Hi Hi Hi everyone! Nice picture on the playlist page!

Can we still donate to the show and WFMU?
  6:04pm David in London:

HyperDose, tim, Ken!
Avatar 👻 Swag For Life Member 6:04pm Handy Haversack:

Bas, chresti, HyperD, tim, PR1920, everyone!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:04pm tim from washington:

Hey DiL!
  6:05pm Old Dave:

on board for the catharsis
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:06pm ultradamno:

Hey DiL!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:07pm chresti:

Hi David in Lodon (kins)!
Avatar 👻 Swag For Life Member 6:07pm PaulRobeson1920:

Helloo, Handy! Good to C u
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:07pm chresti:

*London
Avatar 6:08pm HyperDose:

Evening to Handy in kitten land!
David, chresti, tim in their respective locations!
Avatar 👻 Swag For Life Member 6:08pm Webhamster Henry:

Hi Friends! Welcome to the Future we deserve!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:09pm tim from washington:

Forget Mars. Screw you, Musk! I'm heading to Saturn with Syn Ra.
  6:09pm David in London:

I used the phrase ‘Amazon home surveillance device’ the other day and received a look that was halfway between fear and anger.
Avatar 👻 Swag For Life Member 6:10pm Ken From Hyde Park:

Koyaanisqatsi and related films kind of mention living beyond one's means.
Hiyo, David in London.
Avatar 👻 Swag For Life Member 6:10pm Handy Haversack:

I have been quite publicly giving the Google Spy Towers the bird as we walk by them, and K8's take on the role of saying, "Flipping off the Google Spy Towers, are we?" So that's happening.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:10pm spacecadet:

+1 @tim from washington, space is the place.
Avatar 👻 Swag For Life Member 6:12pm DanFA:

Hello, my name is Dan and it has been 7 days since I went on YouTube.
Avatar 👻 Swag For Life Member 6:14pm PaulRobeson1920:

Paul Robeson wrote about the primary wealth of the stock market… where did the original capital come from to establish insurance companies? and well… i’ll leave it up to you to seek Paul’s own words


Hi Australia!!! My warmest greetings!! (Paul Robeson is the 1st artist to perform at the Sydney Opera House)
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:14pm ultradamno:

Thesis for my speech at that conference: molecules need to be made bigger: what are they trying to hide?
  6:16pm yippie:

All Time High
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:16pm Mark Hurst:

Hi all, thanks for joining in this evening!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:18pm Mark Hurst:

@tim from washington - yes, welcome to the metaverse. do not adjust your goggles.
  6:18pm castor:

Hi Mark! Loving this show, been thinking about exactly all this recently, especially regarding systems thinking and de-colonization.
  6:20pm castor:

Also, FYI for you and all here in the chat, I am a part of an org that does radical educational tours in NYC which touches on a lot of these topics. I have one on Sunday in the Village in honor of Vets day about the history of the US anti-war movement and the gov repression of it, which will include stuff on post-9/11 surveillance and big tech doing business with the military and the police. If anyone’s interested: socialjusticetours.com.
  6:21pm Old Dave:

Well, sorry, his speech talk is hard to take seriously as a thing to apply in real life.
Please go get Wendell Berry on before he dies.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:22pm tim from washington:

Great definition of diversity. I totally agree with sitting with ideas and conversations that can be uncomfortable and challenging.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:23pm Mark Hurst:

@Old Dave well I take his message seriously - I think it's immediately applicable and, for what it's worth, well aligned with Wendell Berry (who, yes, would be a great guest)
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:24pm tim from washington:

@Old Dave - how is it hard to take serously as an application?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:24pm Mark Hurst:

@castor thanks, will take a look
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:24pm iiibeat:

" . . diversity in unity or synthesis in differentiation " via Ouspensky in Tertium Organum
Avatar 👻 Swag For Life Member 6:25pm DanFA:

Alpha Mark Hurst OWNS and DESTROYS Pro-Tech Beta Loser with FACTS and LOGIC!
  👻 Swag For Life Member 6:25pm Erin in TO:

You get such great interviews, Mark. Thanks for another interesting topic/speaker!
Avatar 👻 6:25pm Bas NL:

Artificial Indigeneity?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:26pm Mark Hurst:

@Erin thanks!
  6:26pm Old Dave:

Mark- I have this BS meter in me going off loudly at so many unfounded pronouncements.
  6:29pm queems:

this book sounds really interesting
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:31pm Mark Hurst:

@Old Dave you are certainly entitled to that opinion and I appreciate you voicing it politely here on the comment board. Again just speaking for myself, I would hesitate to make a sweeping judgement about a guest within the first 2 minutes of hearing him, without reading his book etc. But that's just me.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:31pm Mark Hurst:

@queems it is well worth reading.
  👻 Swag For Life Member 6:32pm Erin in TO:

Not tech-related really, but I recently read a great book called Dark Emu by Bruce Pascoe about indigenous Australian agriculture. May be of interest to those looking for more about that cultural history and thinking
Avatar 👻 Swag For Life Member 6:32pm Handy Haversack:

Yeah, what Mark said. Maybe listening for a bit might actually enable you to understand what Tyson's talking about a bit better?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:33pm Mark Hurst:

@Erin thanks for the rec. I'd also recommend the book Tyson & I mentioned at the top: Braiding Sweetgrass, by Robin Wall-Kimmerer. Another excellent book.
  6:34pm Derbs:

Good stuff Mark
  👻 Swag For Life Member 6:35pm Erin in TO:

Thanks Mark, I'll be adding that one and Sand Talk to my reading list
  6:37pm yippie:

and zero knowledge proof
Avatar 👻 Swag For Life Member 6:37pm PaulRobeson1920:

How much does it cost to store and maintain 1 Nuclear weapon for a year?


“Genocide Of The Mind” - New Native American Writing 2003
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:38pm tim from washington:

A book that helped me get a broad baseline on indigenous thought is Bruce Chatwin's Songlines.
Avatar 👻 Swag For Life Member 6:39pm Handy Haversack:

Posted this on Joe B's show on Indigenous People's Day, but Posted this last week, but here's a great tool that shows the peoples and languages indigenous to anyone's locality and also the treaties that were made concerning them, mainly in the sections of Turtle Island we call North and Central America, but with expansion happening:

native-land.ca

Smash those looms, Tyson!

I really love Chatwin, tim.
  6:40pm Old Dave:

Dear Lord, Mark.
I was buying hay from a hay from an longtime Amish Lancaster PA friend family earlier today.
How would Amos understand this conversation as a Trump supporter?
Oh yes, he votes. And is anti vacc, etc. Yet we are still friends.
As far as I know, he is not scared of his refrigerator or phone.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:41pm coelacanth∅:

but it's okay, the wealthiest folks will always have their devices
Avatar 👻 Swag For Life Member 6:43pm Handy Haversack:

Gotta smash 'em, coela!

My superhero ID would be Disconnect. Minor telekinesis that gets stronger the deeper underground. Mainly for slapping smartphones out of people's hands when they block the way in subway passages and platforms.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:43pm Franco Twinkie:

There always comes a point on Techtonic when I reach critical mass and can to longer keep quite. Today's trigger: Smart Fridge! I know what they are, but still...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:43pm tim from washington:

Cool, Handy! Songlines really stuck in my brain for weeks/months after reading it. I can't wait to read more Chatwin.
  6:44pm Old Dave:

A writer who doesn't read?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:44pm coelacanth∅:

i'm a "borne and bread" westerner but i've felt how Tyson feels for most of my life
Avatar 👻 Swag For Life Member 6:46pm PaulRobeson1920:

Here is a recommendation

www.goodreads.com...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:46pm coelacanth∅:

Franco i periodically see posters stapled to ute poles around town here for "i'll set up your smart home"...it's over an hour's job going around ripping them down.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:47pm ultradamno:

I recommend not not recommendiing
  6:47pm moontana:

Old Dave: That's not what he said.
  6:47pm castor:

I'm afraid people are slowly losing their ability and know-how of being human-in-the-flesh with each other without some kind of tech mediation
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:48pm Franco Twinkie:

I'd help you if I could Coel.
Avatar 👻 Swag For Life Member 6:48pm PaulRobeson1920:

No written material to recommend?
Avatar 👻 Swag For Life Member 6:48pm DjLorraine:

...sand....talk.....
  6:48pm yippie:

talk to the sand
  6:48pm castor:

Love all the Dune memes btw, read the book years ago and I just saw it Sat, thought it was pretty good!
Avatar 6:48pm ARB:

Second the Bruce Chatwin recommendation!
Avatar 👻 Swag For Life Member 6:49pm PaulRobeson1920:

Serious Public Discourse can only take place through the written word. Try as we might otherwise
  6:50pm Dano:

Great show!
Avatar 👻 Swag For Life Member 6:50pm Wendy del Formaggio:

Hello everyone! Robin Wall Kimmerer's book about moss is also really fabulous. It has nothing to do with tech, but you might like it anyway. :-)
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:50pm WR:

Thank you for bringing Tyson and his writing and work to our attention.

My understanding: Tyson was saying it wasn't appropriate for him to recommend books to an audience with which he has no direct connection. For him to act as a "celebrity" for us to follow.
  6:50pm Sam:

Probably a great book but not a fellow who’s doing himself any favors vis-a-vis giving interviews. Expresses himself like a guy you might encounter in the restroom at a Grateful Dead concert, circa 1974.
Avatar 👻 Swag For Life Member 6:50pm Handy Haversack:

The Internet of Moss, Wendy!
Avatar 👻 Swag For Life Member 6:51pm Handy Haversack:

(Said because that sounds great! Big moss fan.)
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:51pm coelacanth∅:

yes lets celebrate indigenous peoples on the anniversary of when the genocide of them began.
Avatar 6:52pm Megaroni:

Thank you Techtonic for calling out Msoft, much needed pushback!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:52pm Franco Twinkie:

I really enjoyed In Patagonia back when dinosaurs walked the Earth, maybe it's time to get Bruce off the shelf.
Avatar 👻 Swag For Life Member 6:52pm Ken From Hyde Park:

Hi, Wendy. Check it out — I'm having spaghetti & artichoke hearts topped with grated Pecorino Romano for supper!
Avatar 👻 Swag For Life Member 6:52pm PaulRobeson1920:

“Genocide of the Mind: New Native American Writing” - 2003

Addressing the genocide of Native American cultural identity over the past 100 years, this collection of 35 essays by authors representing more than 25 tribal nations is at once eye-opening, brutally frank, and ultimately optimistic. Established writers such as Paula Gunn Allen, Leslie Marmon Silko, and Maurice Kenny, along with a host of emerging writers, teachers, poets, students, and visual artists, have come together,
Avatar 👻 Swag For Life Member 6:52pm Webhamster Henry:

In Canada, land acknowledgements start almost every meeting.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:53pm ultradamno:

Steve Buscemi: Hello, fellow teens
Avatar 👻 Swag For Life Member 6:53pm PaulRobeson1920:

Nothing to recommend?
Avatar 6:53pm Megaroni:

The nerve for them to act like they car
Avatar 👻 Swag For Life Member 6:53pm Handy Haversack:

I have to go get supper going. But thanks again and as always for another crucial show and another crucial bit of human connection that reminds us that this -- committed voices talking about what can be done different -- is really what it's all about.

Later on, Techyon Drives!
  👻 Swag For Life Member 6:53pm Erin in TO:

Land acknowledgements are ubiquitous in Ontario
Avatar 6:54pm Feldy:

Great shirt, Mark!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:54pm chresti:

That was nuts!
Avatar 6:54pm Little Danny:

yeah that was completely bizarre
  6:54pm Doug in JC:

“I’m wearing a blue shirt.”

“What is blue?”
Avatar 👻 Swag For Life Member 6:54pm Wendy del Formaggio:

Hey KenFHP: Mmm! I approve. Thanks for the report.
Avatar 👻 Swag For Life Member 6:54pm Webhamster Henry:

Don't for a second deprecate assistive descriptions etc.
  6:55pm Old Dave:

Canada is beside herself with guilt on the whole Aboriginal issue, with the Pope scheduled to appear soon to apologize for all kinds of historic stuff now interpreted at will.
Yes, it is strange but rest assured money is the main goal in all of it on both sides.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:55pm ultradamno:

Yeah, I can't see how any of that was useful for the visually impaired
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:55pm chresti:

native vaseline.
Avatar 👻 Swag For Life Member 6:55pm PaulRobeson1920:

Nothing. Nothing. Monday nothing, Tuesday nothing, Wednesday nothing
Avatar 👻 Swag For Life Member 6:56pm PaulRobeson1920:

'29, nothing
'32, nothing
'39, '45, nothing
1965, a whole lot of nothing
1966, nothing

Reading, nothing
Writing, nothing
arithmetic, nothing

Geography, philosophy, history, nothing
Social anthropology, a whole lot of nothing
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:58pm Carmichael:

Come on over baby, whole lotta nothin' goin' on. 🎶🎵
Avatar 👻 Swag For Life Member 6:58pm PaulRobeson1920:

Oh, Village Voice, nothing
New Yorker, nothing
Sing Out and Folkways, nothing
Harry Smith and Allen Ginsberg
Nothing, nothing, nothing

Poetry, nothing
Music, nothing
Painting and dancing, nothing
The world's great books
A great set of nothing
Audy and Foudy, nothing

GREAT SHOW MARK!!!! Peace& LoVe ya’ll

Freeformmmmm wonderfull wonderful wonderful!!
Avatar 6:58pm Little Danny:

thank you Mark!!!
Avatar 👻 Swag For Life Member 6:58pm Stillwell Coney Islander:

Thanks Mark!
  6:58pm David in London:

Thanks Mark.
Night everyone.
I am wearing red striped pyjamas.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:58pm tim from washington:

Thanks, Mark!
Avatar 6:58pm Analog Nights:

"We'd like to acknowledge the indigenous people who've inhabited this land"

*cuts ribbon in front of new oil well on indigenous land
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:59pm realist∅:

well... it's fashionable. most people don't actually give a shit but they care that others see them as people who give a shit.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:59pm Mark Hurst:

@Analog Nights EXACTLY
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:59pm WR:

XACTLY @Analog Nights
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:59pm chresti:

Thanks Mark!
Avatar 👻 Swag For Life Member 6:59pm Ken From Hyde Park:

Thanks, Mark. For the record, I am wearing pants as I write this.
Avatar 👻 Swag For Life Member 6:59pm Wendy del Formaggio:

Thanks, Mark!
Avatar 👻 Swag For Life Member 7:00pm Webhamster Henry:

PaulRobeson1920: Here's the Wretched Refuse String Band's cover of the Fugs' Nothing, with lots of alternate lyrics: www.youtube.com...
  7:00pm castor:

Thanks Mark! this was such a great interview, gave me a lot to think about. Ciao everyone!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:00pm Franco Twinkie:

Never take that shirt off Mark.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:01pm coelacanth∅:

Thanks Mark! Thanks Tyson!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:01pm Mark Hurst:

Thanks, everyone!
Avatar 👻 Swag For Life Member 7:03pm PaulRobeson1920:

Many thanks, Webhamster! Thank you
Avatar 👻 7:04pm Bas NL:

Thanks Mark!
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