Options Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from May 10, 2021 Options

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Conversations with creators and thinkers who are charting the way forward in a tech-saturated society. Tech, community, video games, and whatever else is next.

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Options May 10, 2021: Pete Davis, author, "Dedicated"

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Tonight: Pete Davis, author, "Dedicated: The Case for Commitment in an Age of Infinite Browsing"

Links:

Dedicated: The Case for Commitment in an Age of Infinite Browsing, by Pete Davis

Articles that helped inspire the book, posted by Pete today on Twitter

Pete Davis at Harvard Commencement 2018 (speech that led to the book) - warning, link goes to toxic YouTube

• Web: PeteDavis.org

• Twitter: @peteddavis

• The National Association of Attorneys General posted today, Monday May 10: NAAG Urges Facebook to Abandon Plans to Develop Instagram Kids, urging Facebook “to abandon any plans to develop Instagram Kids, a new Instagram platform exclusively for children under the age of 13. The letter was signed by 44 attorneys general.”

• Joe Pug's Hymn #101 - an inspiration for Pete's book - is from Pug's debut album Nation of Heat.

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Artist Track Images Approx. start time
  Pete Davis discusses his book "Dedicated: The Case for Commitment in an Age of Infinite Browsing."
Tomaš Dvořák  Game Boy Tune   Options
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  Mark's intro  
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  Interview with Pete Davis  
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0:03:34 (MP3 | Pop‑up)
  Mark's comments  
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0:39:06 (MP3 | Pop‑up)
Joe Pug  Hymn #101   Options
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0:55:37 (MP3 | Pop‑up)


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Listener comments!

Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:00pm ultradamno:

Mark! Techtrothed!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:01pm Handy Haversack:

Mark and the Techyon Drives!

Techgin is poured, but I'm cooking so might have trouble chatting -- listening intently, though!
  6:01pm David in London:

Evening Technoids.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:02pm chris in the redwoods:

i've browsed to the right place. i'm committed.
hi, Mark and all!
Avatar 6:02pm Bas NL:

Hi Mark and Techtonici!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:02pm listener james from westwood:

Evening, Mark and all!
  6:02pm Roland from Australia:

Greetings everyone, I did some research I think this is going be a good one, “The Case for Commitment in an Age of Infinite Browsing”. Looking forward to it.
Avatar 6:02pm StringOFperils:

Hi! Here to hear.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:03pm ultradamno:

Me too on Friday, which made for a rough Saturday, but all past it now.
  6:03pm wendy del formaggio:

Hooray! I’m glad you’re almost fully vaxxed, Mark. Stay safe!
  6:06pm Sam:

I guess I would ban..... nuclear weapons?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:06pm ultradamno:

Consumer semi-automatic weapons would be my pick.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:06pm Webhamster Henry:

Hi Mark & Friends: I read Bob Ostertag's book - we are so doomed.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:06pm Rich in Washington:

Helloooo
  6:06pm David in London:

Ultradamno, Handy, chris, Bas, James, Wendy. Greetings all.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:06pm Mark Hurst:

Hi everyone, thanks for joining!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:06pm ultradamno:

Hey DiL!
  6:06pm David in London:

Roland, SOP, too!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:07pm Webhamster Henry:

Why call it "Infinite Browsing" and not "Doomscrolling"?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:07pm chris in the redwoods:

hiya, David (iL)!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:07pm Webhamster Henry:

BTW I'm thinking of making a Doomscroll Resume for myself.
  6:07pm PJ:

I'll listening to this interview while I read some travel forums and catch up on my Twitter feed . . .
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:07pm ultradamno:

I thought that was perusing tragedy reports
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:08pm WR:

In the last couple of years I've become dedicated to WFMU along with one bittorent site. All the other sources are in service of the conversations I have at WFMU.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:08pm Mark Hurst:

@WR great to hear.
  6:09pm P-90:

“Culture of Committers” cool idea
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:09pm Webhamster Henry:

As opposed to "Fear Of Missing Out" (FOMO), there's "Fear of Opting In" (FOOI).
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:10pm ultradamno:

A couple of other Asian Netflix series recs (picking up from last week): Persona (a truly odd Korean mini) and Taiwanese horror anthology Til Death Do Us Part
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:10pm Mark Hurst:

@ultra thanks! Glad to learn about these.
  6:11pm Sam:

Sooo creepy. There were some creepy ads for Alexa with an old man living independently alone who didn’t want one but his son pushed it on him and then he got hooked. So nauseating.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:12pm melinda:

Hi everyone!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:13pm Mark Hurst:

@Sam good point. Google had an incredibly cynical ad campaign as well, featuring an elderly widower (if memory serves)
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:13pm Ken From Hyde Park:

Ha! When we all experience 100x as much, nobody does.
  6:13pm Old Dave:

Sure, life is short... Pete makes perfect sense. You will either make a life with a partner and a vocation now or forget about it pretty soon.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:13pm G:

It would be fine if people had already developed some sense of judgment about quality and perspective. But no, they just keep dogpaddling in whatever lake they are in.
  6:14pm The Butterman:

I got into BOTH mandolin and BJJ before the fuckin’ internet!
Avatar 6:14pm herb.nyc:

Commitment issues? Was that what Rob (?) was going thru in book High Fidelity? I think his gf actually says he has a fear of commitment.
I’m experiencing this show 100x better than usual. Hmm.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:14pm Webhamster Henry:

turning content interaction into a 1-dimensional User Interface has tremendous side effects: you can exactly time how long you are engaging with each piece of content, and if it's lazy loaded, you can actually use that info (with the already built up record of tagged preferences) to build a more engaging stream directed by the amount of attraction you have juste inadvertently expressed to them.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:14pm Webhamster Henry:

... by "You" I mean "They" or "I".
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:15pm ultradamno:

Netflix has always been accused of being "an uncurated mess" (credit to HBO's Animals) but it got worse when you could only inform the algorithm with a binary up or down rating. Scrolling it is a suckers game, pointed searching is the best you can do.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:15pm tim from champaign (now washington):

I have a clarification question about what is meant by browsing. Are we talking about and intentionality to the browsing or letting the algorythms present information to you?
  6:16pm hoeg:

i seem to have committed my entire year so far to Adam Curtis
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:17pm ultradamno:

In fairness, I remember browsing a whole lot at brick and mortar video stores too, and having to drive there.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:17pm Mark Hurst:

@Tim I think Pete is using "browsing" in a general sense, just surveying all the options (in whatever context) without making a dedicated choice.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:17pm (Murakami Whywolf))):

Putting your trust in The Facebook _is_ a very bad idea.

Abandoning most of your culture and traditions is, however, generally a very good idea, as most of it is kruft that was at best serviceable for a life of endless toil that will be exactly the same as your father's or mother's (_all_ traditional cultures are sexist) ignorant and blinkered life, and at worst just the way those on top of that society (_all_ traditional societies are intensely hierarchical) stay in control.

That being said, once you've made some choices you really ought to commit to them in order to get anything from them—learning mathematics or a martial art or physics or being in a committed relationship with a person or cat, which are the only worthwhile things, _obviously_—all need commitment to be worth much of anything.
  6:18pm P-90:

Of COURSE Wendell Berry comes up here...
  6:18pm Old Dave:

Ah, Berry again- love this conversation.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:18pm Mark Hurst:

@Murakami I think that's his main point - not specifically to worship tradition, but rather to value the practice of commitment (to something, whatever it is)
  6:19pm Steve Schwartz:

"You can't dance at all the weddings". Old Yiddish saying. OLD
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:19pm (((Murakami Whywolf):

All that being said, as usual the problem long pre-dates the Web and even the Internet. Consumer society thrives on lack of commitment, just as it does on the devaluing of reason and cool observation of the actual universe, and though there's no grand conspiracy to so infantilise us, all the incentives easily end-up pointing in that direction.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:19pm PaulRobeson1920:

Good evening ya’ll!!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:19pm Mark Hurst:

@Steve wisdom!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:19pm tim from champaign (now washington):

Thanks for the clarification, Mark.
Avatar 6:20pm StringOFperils:

A great groundswell of people had better COMMIT to completely reversing what they're doing to the Earth, and right quick, or none of these interesting ideas about a future are going to be worth much to anyone at all.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:22pm (Murakami Whywolf))):

On the third hand, to satisfy my commitment to mine inner contrarian, William Claude Fields said it best: 'If at first you don‘t succeed, try and try again. Then give-up—no sense in being a damned fool _all_ your life.'.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:22pm PaulRobeson1920:

@The Butterman hi. Hello, good evening. Have I said before that, I am the Hurdy Gurdy?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:22pm Handy Haversack:

Of course, there is a good bit of privilege involved in being able to choose, at whatever level, between sticker and boomer. Some people have no choice but to move on. I am grateful for the freedom to keep being a sticker.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:23pm PaulRobeson1920:

Man*
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:24pm Webhamster Henry:

The riddle of commitment extends to overcoming Sales Resistance and results in Brand Loyalty. This has been a capitalistic moment.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:25pm (((Murakami Whywolf):

Of course, if your 'Story of "Why?"' is that you're fighting a Divinely-inspired war against the Mud Races and their Khazar Masters, I think it were better that you just watched a lot of television.

Commitment, like bravery, is only admirable when pointed in an admirable direction, which judgement is of course dependably rendered only by me, your old friend <Animator> <"Adventure Time" character>.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:26pm Mark Hurst:

@Murakami my recent interview with Adrian Daub brings up Samuel Beckett's take on failure, and how it has been co-opted by Silicon Valley: www.wfmu.org...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:26pm PaulRobeson1920:

Happy Birthday, John Brown! May 9th!!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:27pm tim from champaign (now washington):

Nihilism is exhausting.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:27pm Wendy del Formaggio:

Goddamn, this is such a good interview. Thank you again, Mark, for finding great people to join you, and for asking great questions.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:28pm DjLorraine:

I'm here too
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:28pm Mark Hurst:

@Wendy that's very kind, thank you!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:29pm ultradamno:

Wait, aren't robots animated objects?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:29pm Mark Hurst:

@DjLorraine welcome!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:29pm ultradamno:

Calling them inanimate is just a robophobic slur.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:30pm Mark Hurst:

@ultra exactly.. Frank Pasquale brought up last week, in all seriousness, that he's been called a "human supremacist"
Avatar 6:32pm herb.nyc:

She lives to see women vote. Very inspiring.

Related- I read a super book w great title-“the world only spins forward”, about the making of Angels in America play.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:33pm PaulRobeson1920:

“John Brown’s standing on hallelujah shores! Where Gonorreha and Syphills will trouble him no more!” He he he he

“Time is value neutral.” Very important to make your values explicit, wherever possible.


Upstate NY, native tribes had women in leadership roles. The women at Seneca falls lived in relation to the many tribes.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:34pm melinda:

@ultra-d haha
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:34pm (Murakami Whywolf))):

ultradamno:
As hard as it might be to believe, some people _aren't_ strict materialists, so they come-up with weird ideas like robots' _never_ equalling or surpassing humans.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:34pm tim from champaign (now washington):

no way! Eradicate all disease? Jeezus. For a powerful person, Zuckerberg is either a dope or else his idea boys are dopes.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:34pm PaulRobeson1920:

John Brown is* a good man.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:35pm ultradamno:

As difficult as Netflix is, it's a walk in the park compared to Xfinity's On Demand channel. Unusable if don't know exactly what you're looking for and even then a challenge.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:35pm WR:

That Seneca Falls convention of 1848 is so significant an example. Frederick Douglass spoke there helping overcome some thoughts that women's rights should not be focused on until slavery issue was addressed.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:35pm tim from champaign (now washington):

@melinda - Take your human supremicist thoughts to Chuck E Cheese!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:35pm Wendy del Formaggio:

Perhaps Zuckerberg can start with eradicating the diseases of greed and capitalism.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:36pm PaulRobeson1920:

Ooooo return! meaning going far.
Going far means going on, and going on means returning
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:36pm chris in the redwoods:

xfinity is exactly the amount of time required to invest and wait for the interface to work for you. miserable crap, it. is.
  6:37pm Old Dave:

You could just pick an issue like gun violence today. Here, in Philly, 23 people shot yesterday. It is a community Berry might describe as self-destructing.
Mayor and police pretend an infusion of $9 million will "solve" the problem. Dozens of officials dance around this issue all the time.
None has bothered to visit the Cabela's store in Hamburg PA where straw buyers show up to purchase handguns daily- all day, I was there and witnessed it. They pretend the flow of guns is a big mystery.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:40pm Webhamster Henry:

Kunstler is kind of cranky but has a pretty good podcast.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:40pm (Murakami Whywolf))):

Old Dave:
Some people are _extremely_ committed to just about anybody's being able to buy just about any death-appliance they can afford.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:40pm Wendy del Formaggio:

Ooh, I love "Geography of Nowhere." Reading it, and "Home from Nowhere," a few decades ago totally shifted my perspective.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:41pm PaulRobeson1920:

I’m wondering, ever read “The Corner Stone Speech” March 1861, Alexander Stephens?


@Old Dave 6:37 Drug Prohibition related violence drives madness. lawenforcementactionpartnership.org...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:42pm ultradamno:

@Murakami media.tenor.com...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:42pm (((Murakami Whywolf):

Of course, if you have the true discernment that comes from "Bob" (after you've paid for it), you can find that your slack may consist in being a couch-potato or doing good works among the lepers of Bora-Bora—WHETHER THEY WANT YOU TO DO THEM OR NOT.
  6:42pm Old Dave:

What a fine interview, Mark!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:43pm Handy Haversack:

Good interview, Mark -- enjoyed it! I know I'm already an outlier (no smartphone, etc.), but I also hate when "internet" gets conflated with "phone social media" -- that's exactly what Facebook wants, I'd say.

But yes, as a sticker of the first order, that was heartening stuff.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:45pm ultradamno:

Looking at the Firefly Fest lineup, past the headliners I'm pretty sure these were all made with the WFMU band name generator pbs.twimg.com...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:46pm (Murakami Whywolf))):

I pointed a good, smart, friend [White ]Southern-educated, toward the Cornerstone Speech. It might have done some good; I also try to point people toward the Secession Conventions' records, lest they just put the Cornerstone Speech down to one Vice President's mouthing-off on his lonesome.
  6:46pm yippie:

if women lawyers are allowed to choose pants or skirt men lawyers should be able to choose necktie or no necktie
  6:46pm Sam:

The Fun 91
Not algorithm-run!
Just a tiny gold crumb
In a world gone numb
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:46pm Webhamster Henry:

There's another level though here (Kingston NY) , our Mom & Pops are not being hit by transnational conglomerates but a handful of downstate millionaires who buy the buildings, kick out the tenants, and sit on them.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:47pm Wendy del Formaggio:

I'm writing to my library's director now to request she order "Dedicated," if she hasn't already. Yay!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:47pm Handy Haversack:

Same here in the Metropole, WHH, though the downstate millionaires are also shady multinationals. Our high-octane-gentrifying neighborhood is full of empty storefronts, some for years.
  6:48pm Catherine:

On a recent trip through Texas, I was saddened to see how fragile small towns have been completely destroyed by the covid pandemic, meaning that the small businesses have not survived, while of course the large chains are unscathed. This is a moment that we really should focus on seeing if these towns can be rebuild in a positive way instead of being ghost towns with a single Starbucks at the crossroads
  6:50pm yippie:

did you mong any cheese last weekend?
Avatar 6:50pm Instagramsci:

"Maintainers" are essential in making sure our world moves in the right direction, and carry the experience of building institutions that we need to create a democratic society from radio to international trade. Love your stuff, Mark!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:50pm Webhamster Henry:

Maybe you need another interview-free show to clear out the news backlog!
  6:50pm Dan Koehler:

This was a fantastic talk - thank you both!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:50pm tim from champaign (now washington):

@Wendy - I've put in purchase requests of books featured on Techtonic at ,my library too.
  6:50pm Sam:

Don’t give up hope. A few years ago, everyone was convinced that cronuts and segways would take over the world, but that never happened.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:51pm Webhamster Henry:

Instagram for Kids: a/k/a Get 'em While They're Young.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:52pm listener 126464:

off topic - another independent bookseller to give the business to - Asbury Book Cooperative, 623 Cookman Ave. Asbury Park - www.asburybookcoop.org
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:52pm Wendy del Formaggio:

@tim from c(nw): Right on! My request to our library isn't the first Techtonic-inspired request I've made. And sometimes they've already had the book, or could get it through our statewide library network. I love libraries!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:52pm ultradamno:

Instagram with just pictures of children, what could go right?
  6:53pm Roland from Australia:

Dear me, That is terrifying, Instagram for under 13s exclusively, What could possibly go wrong?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:54pm ultradamno:

Facebook Oversight Board is the funniest new phrase of the year for me.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:54pm Richard S:

Lift the ban when he's dead.....
  6:54pm yippie:

Duane Reade feels so much less like a monopoly than CVS or walgreens
  6:54pm ?:

Instagram child format- A howling success for pedophiles
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:54pm listener 126464:

MC Facebook Oversight Board
Avatar 6:54pm StringOFperils:

Perhaps recent failures of Facebook and kindred technologies to ultimately motivate all of those inconvenient people to annihilate one another can be overcome by controlling individuals much earlier.
  6:54pm Old Dave:

Hey Catherine- Texas is a huge state. My mom lives in Abeline and they seem unscathed. Where were you seeing the damage, please?
Or have you assumed by driving past what goes on in places there?
  6:55pm yippie:

but I like town drug Ivan's pharmacy and especially walldrug
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:55pm ultradamno:

I have to think half the staff at The Onion stood upright when they heard it and yelled "that's ours!, that's an American Voices profession designation!"
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:55pm Wendy del Formaggio:

Current Affairs has weighed in on Facebook's oversight board, too. Rob Larson is the writer. I haven't read it yet, but it's on my "to do" list. Here's the link: www.currentaffairs.org...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:56pm Handy Haversack:

Rushed to finish mixing the White Negronis to get back here and say that "paid corporate consultants" is a pretty good descriptor of the Supreme Court of the United States, too, though, you know, doesn't capture the lifetime appointment without fear of consequences.
  6:56pm Sam:

Why do kids need to be on the internet exactly? When I was a kid, kids watched way too much TV. The solution was less TV, and more physical activities. And that was without the internet. Now the problem is more prescient than ever.
  6:56pm ?:

The previous president of the USA , #45 is originally known as DER NEUE FUHRER, now is known as DER ALT FUHRER’
Avatar 6:57pm Instagramsci:

Tech Workers' unions would advocate for justice in tech! Most don't agree with their employers' political and corporate practices!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:57pm tim from champaign (now washington):

Thanks, Mark!!!!
  6:57pm Catherine:

@old Dave WE drove from San Antonio to Brownsville - we took some side trips to see some towns that had some promise as being picturesque and "authentic" - but all the businesses, local and tourist oriented were closed, you couldn't even find a cup of coffee!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:57pm WR:

Thank you Mark! Onward.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:57pm listener 126464:

Thanks Mark and guest!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:57pm Handy Haversack:

Thanks, Mark! And thanks, Pete! Great stuff once again. Techtonic is a public good!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:57pm chris in the redwoods:

thanks, Mark!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:57pm ultradamno:

Yes, Sam, outside should be their internet
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:57pm melinda:

cute frog
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:58pm Wendy del Formaggio:

I heard back from my library already. She already ordered Pete Davis's book, and I'll get first dibs. Thanks, Mark!
  6:58pm Roland from Australia:

Let the Emperor of Facebook decide?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:58pm The Hurdy Gurdy Man:

And his soul goes marching on’! John Brown has gone to ever lasting bliss! Where there ain’t no gonno & there ain’t no syphillis! No constrictions of the arsehole OR burning when you piss! He has gone to a far better land!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:58pm Webhamster Henry:

See ya next time, unless everything is locked out by ransomware.
  6:58pm yippie:

I took hymn 101 when I was a freshman
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:59pm Mark Hurst:

Thanks, everyone! Good comments this evening.
  6:59pm P-90:

Thanks Mark, Pete, Wendell, etc...
  6:59pm David in London:

Sam, we used to have a famous kids TV program here in the 70s called ‘Why Don’t You...Just Switch off Your TV set and a go and do something less boring instead!’

Thanks Mark.
  7:00pm Mike S.:

thanks, Mark!
  7:00pm Old Dave:

That's a hard lesson Catherine. I think in line with the show.. we can't be eternal tourists in this world. Sorry.
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