Favoriting Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from May 3, 2021 Favoriting

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Conversations with creators and thinkers who are charting the way forward in a tech-saturated society. In our shift to a digital future, we need alternatives to Big Tech. Homepage: techtonic.fm

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Favoriting May 3, 2021: Frank Pasquale, author, "New Laws of Robotics"

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Tonight: Frank Pasquale, author, "New Laws of Robotics"

Links:

New Laws of Robotics: Defending Human Expertise in the Age of AI, by Frank Pasquale

Frank Pasquale's bio at Brooklyn Law School

Roujin Z, anime movie referenced in Frank's book (about robots and healthcare). Sorry for the toxic YouTube link.

Frank's first appearance on Techtonic (Nov 19, 2018 show), about his book The Black Box Society - see also playlist.

More Than a Feeling (by Frank Pasquale in Real Life magazine, Oct 19, 2020): "Emotion detection doesn't work, but it will try to change your behavior anyway. ... As affective computing is slowly adopted in health care, education, and policing, it will increasingly judge us and try to manipulate us."

NYPD Sending Its "Creepy" Robot Dog To The Farm Upstate (by Jake Offenhartz in Gothamist, Apr 29, 2021): The NYPD has "terminated a contract with Boston Dynamics, which had been leasing the 'Digidog' to the department since last year. NYPD officials initially said the camera-equipped, 70-pound dog was 'going to save lives, protect people, and protect officers' by responding to emergencies too dangerous for police. But after video showed the dog trotting through a Manhattan public housing complex earlier this month, several lawmakers raised concerns about surveillance implications, and argued that the deployment demonstrated the NYPD's over-policing of low-income New Yorkers. 'We keep hearing the same rhetoric from Mayor de Blasio that he believes in community based policing, but I don’t see any community that’s calling for these creepy robots,' Albert Fox Cahn, the founder of the advocacy group Surveillance Technology Oversight Project (STOP), told Gothamist at the time."

• If you haven't seen it yet, find someone with a Netflix account and watch Metalhead, the Black Mirror episode (2017) about autonomous dogs.

Listen to the Techtonic interview with Maxim Pozdorovkin (Feb 18, 2019), director of "The Truth About Killer Robots." See playlist.

As for marrying robots...



• Akihiko Kondo "married" a hologram of anime character and virtual pop star Hatsune Miku, via a digital platform called Gatebox. Sources: Reuters (Nov 14, 2018) and CNN (Dec 29, 2018). Hatsune Miku was also mentioned in the Bob Ostertag interview (Apr 19, 2021).

The Future of Celebrity Is a Japanese Hologram Named Hatsune Miku (by Stephen Marche, July 24, 2018): "Her name is Hatsune Miku. She is a piece of software. Tonight, in the final show of her American tour, she is appearing in the form of a hologram at the Hammerstein Ballroom in New York City. The crowd is shouting their mass adoration to the shape of a human with no substance, to a flickering light projected onto a series of screens. They want an emptiness to know that they love her."

- - -

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Artist Track Images Approx. start time
  Frank Pasquale discusses his book "New Laws of Robotics." Mark recommends it highly.
Tomaš Dvořák  Game Boy Tune   Favoriting
Favoriting
 
  Mark's comments  
Favoriting
 
  Interview with Frank Pasquale  
Favoriting
0:05:45 (Pop-up)
  Mark's comments after the interview  
Favoriting
0:48:15 (Pop-up)
The Cool Greenhouse  Alexa!   Favoriting
Favoriting
0:55:22 (Pop-up)


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Listener comments!

Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:00pm
ultradamno:

Mark! Techtonobophobes!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:01pm
melinda:

hello techties
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:01pm
Bas NL:

Mark! Techtonicbotics!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:01pm
listener james from westwood:

CRUSH
KILL
DELETE FACEBOOK
  6:02pm
Roland from Australia:

Greetings all.
  6:02pm
David in London:

Evening Technoids. Hi Mark.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:02pm
Webhamster Henry:

Hi Mark and Book-reading technonauts!
Avatar 6:03pm
TDK60:

Hello Mark.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:03pm
Ken From Hyde Park:

Hello, Mark and techtoroids! A robot that makes sandwiches would be helpful in the kitchen, but there is likely a downside somehow.
Avatar 6:03pm
Otis:

Hi Mark and fellow Tic-Tacs of Tech.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:04pm
DjLorraine:

Hi friends. Anyone see the 60 Minutes about how we are gonna run out of chips?
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:04pm
tim from champaign (now washington):

Hey Mark and folks!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:05pm
listener james from westwood:

By bizarre coincidence re: that Casio poster, I am rereading Nick Pileggi's Casino while listening to this show.
  6:05pm
wendy del formaggio:

Hello Mark and friends!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:06pm
Fuzzy:

Hello Mark and Techtons!

Looking forward to the battle between AI and the humans over the last remaining planetary resources!
  6:06pm
David in London:

Ultradamno, TDK, Bas, tim, Melinda, webhamster et al. Hello!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:07pm
melinda:

I found 'Her' difficult to get into and didn't finish it.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:07pm
Ken From Hyde Park:

Do we include our name / handle in the recording? Or just state the suggestion straight away?
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:07pm
ultradamno:

Hey DiL!

Futurama ep "Fear Of A Bot Planet"!
  6:07pm
Glistener MW:

!! GREAT documentary title! Will add it to my LB watchlist
  6:08pm
Another Patrick from Hoboken:

Mark, at some point will you look at what can be learned from the recent war between Azerbaijan and Armenia? Apparently drones were used with deadly effect by Azerbaijan.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:08pm
Mark Hurst:

@Listener James - what if it's not a coincidence - perhaps Big Tech surveillance knew you were reading it. (KIDDING, not to worry)
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:09pm
Webhamster Henry:

Although both movies are male robot mate fantasies, Ex Machina was predictable and full of ghastly developer sterotypes, but Her was very very close to how that AI tech would work, and how people would bond with it.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:09pm
Mark Hurst:

Hi ultra, melinda, Bas, James, Roland, DiL, Webham, TDK, KfHP, Otis, Lorraine, Tim, Fuzzy, MV, and Patrick!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:10pm
Mark Hurst:

@Patrick thanks for the pointer - I hadn't heard anything at all about that
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:10pm
Webhamster Henry:

Hey! Has anyone NFT'd Hatsune Miko?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:11pm
Mark Hurst:

@KfHP for the audio submissions, you can choose whether to identify yourself or not - I'll just play it as-is. Everyone so far has identified themselves.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:11pm
Mark Hurst:

@Wendy thanks for joining! Great to see you here.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:11pm
ultradamno:

I enjoyed her, it was one of the better 'Scarlett Johansson transcends to a higher internet consciousness above mere men' movies.

Sorry, spoilers.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:12pm
Ken From Hyde Park:

Got it! Thanks, Mark.
  6:12pm
hoeg:

good evening Mark and technuts and any remaining station skeletons.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:12pm
Mark Hurst:

@hoeg welcome
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:12pm
ultradamno:

The other being Lucy, the next year.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:13pm
Webhamster Henry:

The elephant of the room (or the ROM) is : why don't people obey laws like the Laws of Robotics.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:13pm
disco_nap_:

Don't forget "Underneath the Skin"
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:14pm
disco_nap_:

*Under oops
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:14pm
Mark Hurst:

@disco thx!
  6:14pm
Another Patrick from Hoboken:

Thanks Mark; it was mentioned a few times in the New York Times coverage. Azerbaijan had overwhelming advantage in deadly drone systems, demoralizing Armenian conscript army and apparently contributing to defeat
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:15pm
ultradamno:

She kind of went the other way in that one, though.

Great movie.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:15pm
Mark Hurst:

@Patrick thanks, will have to take a look. Frank Pasquale's book goes into some depth about LAWS (lethal autonomous weapon systems, aka "killer robots") though we don't really get into it in this interview. But I'm interested in this development.
Avatar 6:15pm
northguineahills:

considering I've been accused of talking like a robot, alexa/siri would be confused (never used either).
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:16pm
disco_nap_:

Haha true...it's hard to talk about that one without spoiling it for others.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:17pm
disco_nap_:

Whoa how did I not know about the NYPD robo-dog?
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:18pm
Webhamster Henry:

It generally boils down to : the Funds!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:19pm
Mark Hurst:

The TikTok piece was written by The Markup: themarkup.org...
Avatar 6:22pm
TDK60:

I /do/ need a stress pill..
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:22pm
tim from champaign (now washington):

I've been by HAL 2000's birthplace many times.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:26pm
Bas NL:

Technology amplifies the human equation. A psychopath might not push the stop button when reasonable.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:26pm
Mark Hurst:

"Human Contact is Now a Luxury Good" www.nytimes.com...
  6:27pm
The Butterman:

Tell that shit to Teddy Ruxpin. Or A.G Bear who imitated up to four syllables. He was my good friend. I’d say “hello A.G.Bear” and it would say back to me “wyuh wyuh wyuh wyuh”
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:27pm
ultradamno:

There have been a series of tech shorts on the FXX show Cake this season. The last one involves a phone that becomes a Hal like consciousness attempting to talk the user out of updating to the new model citing the creation of tech junk (while ignoring the planned obsolescence/refusal of updating that enforces updating)
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:29pm
disco_nap_:

Thanks, Mark, for posting the NY Times article...and for this entire talk. Really hitting home.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:30pm
Mark Hurst:

@disco thanks!
  6:31pm
Roland from Australia:

Friends, if we can’t hold the current CEO’s responsible for most if not all of their indiscretions, how on earth will we hold the makers of robotics responsible for their actions and for the consequences of robotics misbehaving ?
Avatar 6:32pm
northguineahills:

When I was a kid, I used to play GnR on my younger bros Teddy Ruxpin....
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:32pm
Mark Hurst:

@Roland excellent point. Hoping the many federal lawsuits here, in the EU, Canada, etc. will begin to hold Big Tech leadership accountable.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:32pm
disco_nap_:

PREEEEACH
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:32pm
Ken From Hyde Park:

I'd like to know what AI George Carlin would have to say about this.
  6:32pm
P-90:

“New York Times reports ‘Human contact is now a luxury good’” —now THAT’S Ballardian
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:33pm
Mark Hurst:

welcome, P-90
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:33pm
tim from champaign (now washington):

Oh wow. When I heard "ed tech" I was thinking about job training like industrial arts - not a teaching tool.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:34pm
PaulRobeson1920:

Context is everything baby.

Howd’y ya’ll!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:34pm
Mark Hurst:

@Tim edtech is a huge, huge issue. starting w/Google Classroom. but not limited to that.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:34pm
Mark Hurst:

@PaulR hi!
  6:35pm
Miss G:

*waves hello* Had to skim this and listen at the same time, but here is one link re: edtech and the current moment, from Campaign for a Commercial-Free Childhood https://commercialfreechildhood.org/edtech_statement/
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:35pm
Mark Hurst:

@MissG hi and thanks!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:36pm
LeBongWizard:

Frank Pasquale for Mayor!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:36pm
Mark Hurst:

@LBW he has my vote
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:42pm
disco_nap_:

Ready to canvas for FP
Avatar 6:42pm
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

All the Profit (VAST) - all the Controls
- none of the Accountability, none of the Transparency
...none of the Honesty...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:42pm
Mark Hurst:

I don't have time to cover the Senate hearings last week about algorithmic amplification, but if you're interested, I wrote this summary: creativegood.com...
  6:42pm
wendy del formaggio:

I’ll be honest. I wasn’t that interested in a show about AI...but of course it’s about so much more, and things I am very interested in! I shouldn’t be surprised. This is Techtonic, after all. Thank you, Mark and Frank.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:42pm
Mark Hurst:

Aw thanks, Wendy!
Avatar 6:44pm
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

You don't know what you're looking @ any more
- or what you're listening to
...so how about what you're interacting with...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:44pm
dave miss:

Thank for another great show.
  6:44pm
David in London:

This sounds like a must-read.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:45pm
Mark Hurst:

@dave & @David thanks! and yes.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:45pm
ultradamno:

When they achieve personhood, it won't be long before Battlebots will be regarded as equivalent to dogfights.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:45pm
tim from champaign (now washington):

Sure, if a corporation can be considered a person, it's not that far of a bridge to AI rights.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:45pm
WR:

Look at what has being done for rights of a corporation.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:45pm
Mark Hurst:

@ultra interesting point
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:45pm
melinda:

I am a human supremacist
Avatar 6:46pm
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

An extension of giving Corporations rights - & not the Workers... 'Corporation' in fact means literally 'put into a body'...
  6:46pm
wendy del formaggio:

“Poor HAL!” Poor HAL, my ass. That robot killed Dave’s space-partner!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:46pm
Mark Hurst:

@WR TRUE
  6:46pm
Miss G:

I didn't read Mr. Pasquale's article on emotion detection softwares but I read another article today about its current use in places like insurance claim call centers, and I had no idea, and it was horrifying.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:46pm
tim from champaign (now washington):

Say it loud and proud, Melinda!
  6:47pm
?:

Dr. Noonian Soong , creator of DATA is in totally disagreement with your premise on cyber technology
  6:48pm
P-90:

I’m going to toss this link into the mix if I may, to a little article from a few years ago that reminds us that futurist theorists like Buckminster Fuller were already fascinated by the possibilities of (what we’re now calling) “ed tech” back in the late fifties and early sixties, inspired by the penetration of television into American homes, and the more interactive technology of “personal computing” which hadn’t really arrived yet, but a lot of smart people knew was on the way:

https://medium.com/the-history-of-the-future-of-education/buckminster-fuller-and-education-automation-6fa637724982
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:48pm
DjLorraine:

Thank You
  6:50pm
Derbs:

Good talk...
  6:50pm
grtyvr:

Christine Sunu does work in emotive tech. She plays with what is the minimum to invoke feelings about a robot. http://www.christinesunu.com/
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:50pm
melinda:

@tim I am also a card-carrying member of Team Human! (I joined Douglas Rushkoff's podcast Patreon)
  6:50pm
wendy del formaggio:

OMG, tell it, Frank! So much of the gross homophobic opposition to marriage equality was this snarky statement, “What’s next? I can marry my toaster?” Toasters and robots are not people. DUH.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:51pm
PaulRobeson1920:

I'm gonna lay down my sword and shield...
Down by the riverside &
Study war no more!
I ain't gonna study war no more,
Ain't gonna study war no more
Ain't gonna study war no more!

I'm gonna lay down that atom bomb!
Down by the riverside
Down by the riverside
Down by the riverside
& Studyy war no more!


How bout that, AI? U ready to lay down-that atom bomb? Lay down humanity’s sword & shield and study war no more!?

“Investments in Livingry rather than Killingry” is where we must and will trend- Bucky Fuller
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:51pm
tim from champaign (now washington):

Tweaky from Buck Rogers is pretty damn cute though.
  6:51pm
Sam:

Machines already have more rights than humans in public streets. Pedestrians have the least rights while cars are always treated like royalty.
  6:52pm
hoeg:

ha they've been telling us that computers will revolutionise education for so long...
  6:53pm
wendy del formaggio:

Sam, good point.
  6:53pm
Glistener MW:

I highly recommend the anthology-film “Robot Stories” from 2003! — 4 short films very in the vein of today’s conversation
  6:53pm
David in London:

The Forbin Project gets more relevant with every passing year.
  6:53pm
dano59:

I went to Discogs today and negated their entire cookies policy. Intrusive stuff
Avatar 6:54pm
northguineahills:

or, it looks like Soundwave's Ravage dog from the cartoon Transformers.
  6:54pm
Sam:

Robot dogs are practical in the city. You never have to clean up poop. And they only chew up your slippers if you program them to.
  6:55pm
Jojo:

The dancing robots video is digital, not physical.
  6:55pm
Sam:

Those dogs are more bark than byte
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:55pm
disco_nap_:

Watching that robot dog walk made my skin crawl
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:56pm
Bas NL:

Scary! www.bostondynamics.com
  6:56pm
grtyvr:

krieger
  6:56pm
David in London:

Boston Dynamics are literally forging our chains in front of us. I absolutely hate it.
Thanks Mark, great show.
Avatar 6:56pm
Human Otis:

Thanks Mark, fantastic episode and putting this one on my read list.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:57pm
tim from champaign (now washington):

Thank you, Mark!!!!!!!
  6:57pm
Roland from Australia:

So the story of the world so far ... God makes humans in his image ...... then lots ups and down, twists and turns ..... then man imitates God and make a robot, .... robot is a cruel hard mean master .... then God rescues man .... and says Man when will you ever learn!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:57pm
ultradamno:

Did the Texas robobrothel ever open? If you can pay them for that, you should be able to marry them
  6:57pm
Sam:

And whatever you do, don’t marry a hologram!!
  6:57pm
Miss G:

Thanks so much Mark Hurst and Frank Pasquale!
  6:57pm
?:

What about Johnny 5 and Chappy!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:57pm
Bas NL:

Thanks Mark! Thanks Frank!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:57pm
Mark Hurst:

Thanks, everyone! Great comments tonight.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:57pm
Mark Hurst:

@wendy I totally agree
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:58pm
WR:

Thank you Mark!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:58pm
disco_nap_:

Thank you, Mark, Frank, and skeleton crew!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:58pm
ultradamno:

I will say this for Netflix and why I keep it, it has all my Korean TV
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:58pm
Megaroni:

Thanks Techtonic for calling out targeting low income areas of the city by the mayor and NYpD
  6:58pm
P-90:

I’m pretty sure that whatever reasons the NYPD administration gave publicly for terminating the”robot police dog” contract, the true motivation was the potential for a PR nightmare.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:59pm
Mark Hurst:

@P-90 agreed. same attitude as the Big Tech monsters. they really, really hate bad PR.
  6:59pm
dano59:

Yes, thanks as always Mark! New week, more stuff to watch out for.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:59pm
Ken From Hyde Park:

Thanks, Mark. We reserve the right to use our personal robots to monitor the police.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:59pm
PaulRobeson1920:

Thanks Mark & Frank!

Peace & LOVE YA’LL!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:59pm
Mark Hurst:

@dano59 thanks for joining!
Avatar 7:00pm
northguineahills:

ultradamno: I have my bros Netflix, all I've lately is Korean, Finnish, and Israeli tv....
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:00pm
Mark Hurst:

@ultra @ngh if you have good recs for int'l viewing, let me know!
  7:00pm
Roland from Australia:

Thanks Mark, time will make Mark’s shows very popular as the future unfolds.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:01pm
Mark Hurst:

@Roland thanks for being with us!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 7:01pm
ultradamno:

I loved Kingdom and School Nurse Files
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:02pm
Mark Hurst:

roger that
  7:03pm
Miss G:

*L* I was staring off into space and thought "wow, that amusing song about Alexa has taken quite a turn!" (now Vocal Fry)
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