Favoriting Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from June 3, 2019 Favoriting

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Conversations with creators and thinkers who are charting the way forward in a tech-saturated society. In our shift to a digital future, we need alternatives to Big Tech. Homepage: techtonic.fm

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Favoriting June 3, 2019: Joseph Menn, author, "Cult of the Dead Cow"

Listen to this show: Pop-up listen Pop-up player!

This week: Joseph Menn, author, "Cult of the Dead Cow"


‘Fire Zuck’ projected onto location of Facebook shareholders’ meeting, TechnoLAG (May 30, 2019)


- - -

Links:

Cult of the Dead Cow: How the Original Hacking Supergroup Might Just Save the World, by Joseph Menn

KnowYourMeme: "Cult of the Dead Cow (cDc) is a computer hacking group that is most well known for coining the term "hacktivism" and creating the Back Orifice remote administration tool (RAT), which gains remote access to machines running the Microsoft Windows operating system."

Exclusive: Beto O'Rourke belonged to major hacker group as a teenager (by Joseph Menn for Reuters, March 15): "O’Rourke belonged to the hacking group known as the Cult of the Dead Cow... [he] wrote online essays under the pseudonym 'Psychedelic Warlord.'"

The Hacking Supergroup That Counts Beto O’Rourke as One of Its Own (NYT Book Review, June 2)



• Above, Washington Tiananmen vigil attracts first-timers for 30th anniversary (by Nectar Gan in the South China Morning Post, June 3): "Biggest turnout in years for candlelight commemoration outside Chinese embassy. For many, it is the first time they have spoken of the events of June 4, 1989."

My thread on today's Apple commercial, including this thought: "Now if we could just get more people to attach Apple things onto their arms, into their ears, implanted in all their orifices, and thus walk around half-distracted all the time - THEN, my friends, THEN we'd be on our way to building a just & equitable society" ... also this - "It's quite a tech industry where the slogan "we're not as bad as the stalker spreading conspiracies and child-abuse for profit" is a winner."

On YouTube’s Digital Playground, an Open Gate for Pedophiles (Max Fisher and Amanda Taub in the New York Times, today, June 3). Max Fisher adds: "Each video might appear innocent on its own, a home movie of a kid in a two-piece swimsuit or a nightie. But each has three common traits:
  - the girl is mostly unclothed or briefly nude
  - she is no older than age 8
  - her video is being heavily promoted by YouTube’s algorithm"
...and then...
"We talked to one mother, in Brazil, whose daughter had posted a video of her and a friend playing in swimsuits. YouTube’s algorithm found the video and promoted it to users who watched other partly-clothed prepubescent children. Within a few days of posting, it had 400,000 views."

• And from a recent guest on Techtonic, Roger McNamee's NYT op-ed today (June 3): "Why it is legal for service providers to comb our messages and documents for economically valuable data? Why is it legal for third parties to trade in our most private information, including credit card transactions, location and health data, and browsing history? Why is it legal to gather any data at all about minors? Why is it legal to trade predictions of our behavior? Corporate claims to our data are not legitimate and we must fight back."

• Other Big Tech news: DOJ starting antitrust investigation of Google, FTC starting antitrust investigation of Amazon, and the first Attorney General case hits Facebook.

- - -

Check out techtonic.fm for recent Techtonic interviews and Little Slice of Tech Pie segments.

PODCAST: Subscribe to the Techtonic podcast

Artist Track Images Approx. start time
  Joseph Menn talks about his new book "Cult of the Dead Cow," which tells the story of a group of hackers, founded in Texas in 1984, that's still active today in resisting oppressive surveillance and control from Big Tech.
Tomaš Dvořák  Game Boy Tune   Favoriting
Favoriting
 
  Mark's intro  
Favoriting
 
  Interview with Joseph Menn  
Favoriting
0:15:22 (Pop-up)
  Your comments  
Favoriting
0:43:52 (Pop-up)
Pink Tiles  Internet   Favoriting   0:56:00 (Pop-up)


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Listener comments!

Avatar 6:00pm
geezerette:

Flat cows too?!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:00pm
ultradamno:

Hello Mark! Techrackers!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:01pm
ultradamno:

...or Techburgers!?
Avatar 🤖 6:01pm
herb.nyc:

hi hi, I misread FIRE ZUCK and thought FIRE TRUCK so that's how I said it. ugh.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:01pm
Ken From Hyde Park:

The opening theme song puts me in a trance. It's so technotic!
Avatar 6:02pm
geezerette:

(snicker!)
Avatar 6:02pm
Beast of Boonton:

Hello Mark and Techtonicans
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:02pm
Webhamster Henry:

Hello friends!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:02pm
Bas NL:

Mark! Techtonaticaloids!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:02pm
listener james from westwood:

Evening, Mark and all! Listening through the evidently marked-for-death iTunes.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:02pm
Webhamster Henry:

The cult you have to watch out for is the cult of the pale penis.
Avatar 6:03pm
northguineahills:

Mark, I think you'd like the Polish show on Netflix. Although, not the focus, 1983 has social media devouring every one's information like the Stasi on steroids. It's a dystopian present where the Iron Curtain never falls, and Poland is trying to get our of the Soviet orbit, allying w/ Vietnam and the US.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:03pm
Folsom:

How about Technados?
Avatar 6:04pm
geezerette:

Must we go Beyond Meat? Can't veggies be veggies?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:04pm
Ike:

Meow meow meow
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:04pm
Ken From Hyde Park:

That's a very robust electronic sign. It's clearly on fire but continues to warn us that it's collating our data.
  6:04pm
melinda:

Hi all!
@Henry is there context for your comment? It’s funny regardless.
  6:05pm
phillippe bastille:

hi all
Avatar 6:05pm
Fox:

I came across the Cult of the Dead Cow in 1995, and used to visit their site, without a real understanding of it. I think it was called the Cult of the Dead Cow Ninja Strikeforce?
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:05pm
Bas NL:

;) Got him tongue-twisted again..
Avatar 6:05pm
Carmichael:

Heya Scott and tech commandos.
  6:06pm
Dave from Brooklyn:

Howdy doody techheads
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:06pm
chresti:

Hi Mark and Techtonoids!
  6:09pm
Dave Miss:

The other Dave from Brooklyn. Howdy!
Avatar 6:10pm
geezerette:

Exactly,Mark. Its already here in bits and pieces.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:10pm
ⓘⓚⓔ:

Yes yes yes. Xinjiang and Tiananmen are so important. BTW don't travel to China. It's not fun. It's pretty rude and unpleasant. Go to Taiwan instead!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:10pm
Franco Twinkie:

FIRE ZUK! That would look real sharp as a bumper sticker on all those Teslas driving around in Palo Alto.
Avatar 6:11pm
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

Privacy ! :
www.reuters.com...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:11pm
chresti:

Apple wants to do away with itunes
Avatar 6:11pm
geezerette:

Franco. Hahaha!
  6:11pm
Johnzon:

how bout that rare innovation a headphone jack
Avatar 6:12pm
Carmichael:

Dublin, CA = Dublin, Ireland
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:12pm
ultradamno:

The Irish dodge is becoming more famous than their exit.
Avatar 6:13pm
geezerette:

Chresti, seems like it! Man,...:(
Avatar 6:13pm
Carmichael:

It's Britain who's exiting. Ireland will suffer the consequences. As usual.
  6:13pm
st Joe:

Some of the early Mac's were manufactured in Ireland
Avatar 6:14pm
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

I read iTunes ia splitting into Three...
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:14pm
Folsom:

How about the big Google shutdown yesterday that affected youtube and other services?
Avatar 6:15pm
geezerette:

Jack it into your brain directly.
Avatar 6:15pm
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

Not As Bad As the other Evil Giant.
That would be the USA 2019 then...
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:15pm
ultradamno:

It's a novel pitch for Apple to demand to only use their stuff, much different how Google and Amazon only want you to use their stuff.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:16pm
diciassette:

I do not mind if "Music" is a separate app, but I do not use cloud music services (yuck.). I'm mostly into gapless playback (that actually works)
Avatar 6:17pm
geezerette:

I may throw up now.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:17pm
ultradamno:

Well, I don't mind courting controversy in saying ewwwwww.
Avatar 6:17pm
Fredericks:

Mark talking about Apple vs Google could be talking about Clinton vs Trump. Just change the names.
  6:19pm
D:

there's a great ted talk on children's youtube it touches more on manipulating kids and showing scary things rather than pedophilia though https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9EKV2nSU8w
Avatar 6:20pm
Fredericks:

Avatar ♥ @6:00 geezerette:

Flat cows too?!

When you suck all the blood out of a cow, it is essentially flat.
Avatar 6:20pm
Fox:

Wasn't Beto part of the Cult of the Dead Cow?
Avatar 6:21pm
Fredericks:

The Hacking Supergroup That Counts Beto O’Rourke as One of Its Own (NYT Book Review, June 2)
Avatar 6:22pm
geezerette:

Thanks, Fredericks!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:23pm
Fuzzy:

I remember Back Orifice.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:23pm
Ken From Hyde Park:

Dead, flat cow:
_ _
((___))
[ X X ]
\ /
(' ')
(U)
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:24pm
ultradamno:

Isn't exsanguinating cows what aliens do? Are they involved in this now?
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:24pm
Webhamster Henry:

Images on newsnet were broken up and base 64 encoded in several messages.
Avatar 6:25pm
geezerette:

Ken, amazing! :)
Avatar 6:25pm
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

Long been a sense the Programmers & Hackers were the same Class - against the rest of us...
  6:26pm
st Joe:

ahh the toll free "extender" numbers.
Used by traveling executives and salesmen.
  6:27pm
st Joe:

The most desirable were ones that had international access...
Avatar 6:28pm
northguineahills:

When I started junior high, in 1989, I got an internet connection, but would only would use it to email/message my friends. But, by 1994, I started college, and used message boards it to help coordinate 'illegal' music/art parties/and/or raves all over the SE>
Avatar 6:29pm
Carmichael:

Here in gubmint, I used to buy satellite phones.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:30pm
Fuzzy:

Windows 3.1: the best solitaire game that money can buy!
Avatar 6:31pm
Carmichael:

When I worked at Intel, we migrated from the AS 400 to Windows for Workgroups.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:32pm
listener james from westwood:

Man, the 90s antipathy for MSFT and its rep as taking over everything not already branded Starbucks seems so damn quaint right now.
Avatar 6:34pm
geezerette:

Move slow and fix things. Seriously.
Avatar 6:34pm
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

Apple say MSFT will put you on the NaughtyStep...the Squares...
Avatar 6:37pm
TDK60:

Hi Mark and Techtoniquees.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:42pm
Mark Hurst:

Any questions for Joseph? We're about to head to comments.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:43pm
chresti:

San Francisco is not very fond of Google, lately
That's Beto
Avatar 6:43pm
Fredericks:

you are welcome
!
Avatar 6:44pm
northguineahills:

brain multitasking, can't make questions....
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:44pm
melinda:

@geeze yes!
Avatar 6:44pm
Fredericks:

Geezerette
Avatar 6:44pm
Carmichael:

OK, I got lost somewhere. What is MSFT?
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:45pm
ultradamno:

Microsoft
Avatar 6:45pm
Fredericks:

Does dead cow refer to leather?
Avatar 6:46pm
geezerette:

Hey, Melinda & Fredericks! :)
Avatar 6:46pm
Carmichael:

Oh ... Why not just say that? :)
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:46pm
ultradamno:

www.nasdaq.com...
Avatar 6:47pm
Linda Lee:

isn't the USA the cult of the dead cow?
Avatar 6:47pm
Carmichael:

He he, that explains it. Guess I don't speak Stock.
Avatar 6:47pm
geezerette:

Heh!
Avatar 6:47pm
northguineahills:

Learn something new everyday!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:48pm
chresti:

So Beto is ethical, due to being a member of dead cow cult?
Avatar 6:48pm
Carmichael:

@LL, Texas definitely is. And the Inland Empire area of CA.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:50pm
Webhamster Henry:

Google, and FB at least provide a little value while sucking your privacy blood; LiveRamps ONLY raison d'etre is to correlate individuals' characteristics and contact data for targeting specific consumers. liveramp.com
Avatar 6:50pm
Carmichael:

@chresti, it's no coincidence that this little factoid has come up during the election cycle. Back in the good ol' days, it was whether or not you smoked pot as a youth.
Avatar 6:51pm
BigCat:

Please support, 2-for-1:

"Robot Reproductive Rights"

"Rabbit Reproductive Rites"
Avatar 6:51pm
Linda Lee:

@Carmichael ~ but fast food is everywhere.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:51pm
chresti:

Best of luck Beto..
Ha, right, @Carmichael
Avatar 6:52pm
TDK60:

"one election or another"?! Geez, it was a lot more elections than that the US empire meddled in.
Avatar 6:52pm
Linda Lee:

yes & the fact that you smoked pot was absolutely no indication that you weren't a neoliberal P O S.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:53pm
ultradamno:

El Paso Pussycats: cdn.vox-cdn.com...
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:54pm
Bas NL:

I'm always a bit weary when hackers call them self good and start to lay out ethical rules. Question to Joseph: Who do you see as valid providers of ethics in big tech and the internet?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:54pm
chresti:

I think a re-branding is something to consider for cult of the dead cow?
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:54pm
Granny Spicy Tuna (they/them):

Thanks for another outstanding interview, Mark
Avatar 6:54pm
BigCat:

I forget what's in the cocktail named the "Russian Cow"

anyone? I've got a full bar
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:55pm
Fuzzy:

Bruce Schneir.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:56pm
Fuzzy:

EFF.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:56pm
chresti:

Thanks Mark!
Baily's and vodka@BigCat
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:56pm
Ken From Hyde Park:

In other news, the FCC commissioner has this lovely quote: "Repeat after me, ‘Robocall’ is not a bad word." www.gizmodo.com... Grrr!
Avatar 6:56pm
BigCat:

@chresti you rule -- thanks
on ice
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:57pm
ultradamno:

You mean Moscow Mule?
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:57pm
Bas NL:

Thanks Joseph!
Avatar 6:57pm
geezerette:

Thanks Mark!
Buddies!
Avatar 6:57pm
northguineahills:

Thanks Mark and Joseph!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:57pm
listener james from westwood:

Many thanks, Mark and Joseph!
Avatar 6:57pm
Linda Lee:

glad you're still in this space for the summer!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:58pm
Bas NL:

And thanks Mark! Keep on hacking!
Avatar 6:58pm
BigCat:

this is the only radio show that madders [sic, pun]
Avatar 6:58pm
Carmichael:

Yes, there is no udder.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:59pm
chresti:

Don't know Moscow Mule @ultra
Avatar 6:59pm
geezerette:

hee hee!
  6:59pm
Bart:

Don't have a cow, man!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:00pm
Mark Hurst:

Thanks, everyone! @Carmichael, good one.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:00pm
chresti:

hahaha
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 7:00pm
ultradamno:

It's gross. Like gin and mountain dew in a copper cup or something.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 7:01pm
Webhamster Henry:

Thanks mark!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 7:01pm
ultradamno:

vodka, spicy ginger beer, and lime juice, garnished with a slice or wedge of lime
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