Favoriting Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from November 19, 2018 Favoriting

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Favoriting November 19, 2018: Frank Pasquale, author of "The Black Box Society," on secret algorithms

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This week: Frank Pasquale, author of The Black Box Society

Relevant links:

• Twitter: @FrankPasquale

The Black Box Society: The Secret Algorithms Behind Money & Information

• Frank recommends following on Twitter: @podehaye, Paul-Olivier Dehaye

Recent News

HQ2. WSJ, Nov 14, called it Amazon’s Golden Fleecing: "We rarely agree with socialist Congresswoman-elect Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, but she’s right to call billions of dollars in taxpayer subsidies for Amazon 'extremely concerning.' These handouts to one of the richest companies in the history of the world, with an essentially zero cost of capital, is crony capitalism at its worst.... In New York they call this a racket, and with good reason."

• from The Onion: New York City Announces Subway Just For Amazon Employees Now.

Delay, Deny and Deflect: How Facebook’s Leaders Fought Through Crisis (NYT, Nov 14)... which led to many followups, including...

The moral and ethical rot at Mark Zuckerberg and Sheryl Sandberg’s Facebook (Washington Post, Nov 15): "Facebook itself at one point asked Jewish advocacy groups to characterize critics of the company as engaging in anti-Semitism. (Both Zuckerberg and Sandberg are Jewish.) This is the sort of stuff the Yiddish word 'chutzpah' describes."

The Facebook Movie Told Us What We Needed to Know About Mark Zuckerberg (NYT, Nov 18): " 'The reality of running a company of more than 10,000 people,' Mr. Zuckerberg said on Thursday, 'is that you’re not going to know everything that’s going on.' It was a baffling explanation for anyone who took him and his deputy, Sheryl Sandberg, at face value when they swore, not long ago, that they would work openly to assert more control over the platform to stop misinformation campaigns, privacy breaches and incitements to violence.
Nothing was more at variance with their promises of transparency than The Times’s revelation that the company had hired Definers Public Affairs... as part of its work for Facebook, the firm circulated tip sheets suggesting that the liberal political donor George Soros — a common figure in anti-Semitic tropes — was behind a coalition of groups criticizing Facebook under the 'Freedom from Facebook' umbrella."

• Don't forget Google! Google accused of 'trust demolition' over health app (Nov 14): "A controversial health app developed by artificial intelligence firm DeepMind will be taken over by Google, it has been revealed... [the app] was first used to send alerts in a London hospital but hit headlines for gathering data on 1.6 million patients without informing them. DeepMind now wants the app to become an AI assistant for nurses and doctors around the world."

• "'Data collected by DeepMind Health will never be connected to Google accounts or services,' the company said in a previous statement... [now] DeepMind Health will be absorbed into Google Health." (CNBC)

- - -

PODCAST: Subscribe to the Techtonic podcast

Artist Track Album Images Approx. start time
  Algorithms are rating you in ways you have no knowledge of, or control over. Big Tech and Wall Street are joining forces for just this reason. On this Techtonic, Mark interviews Frank Pasquale, law professor at University of Maryland, about his book "The Black Box Society: The Secret Algorithms That Control Money and Information."
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  Your calls and comments 201-209-9368    
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Listener comments!

Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:01pm
ultradamno:

Hello Mark! Techturitans and technanoag!
  6:01pm
melinda:

Hi everyone! Good one, ultradamno.
Avatar 6:02pm
TDK60:

Go Woofmoo Tech!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:02pm
northguineahills:

Wait, I thought we were techturduckens? (I can't keep track).
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:02pm
Bas NL:

Mark! Techtonicae!
Avatar 6:02pm
geezerette:

High, Mark! (Already cringing...)
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:03pm
Ken From Hyde Park:

Greetings, Techturkeys!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:03pm
ultradamno:

By the way did anyone catch the interview with Tim Cook on HBO's Axios yesterday? Turns out you can use and ipad to visualize what it would look like if there was a lawn chair and some bushes where you point the thing. Heavy stuff.
Avatar 6:04pm
geezerette:

Ke FHP, Ha! :D
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:04pm
Michael 98145:

can Tim help us visualize a better future ?
Avatar 6:05pm
david_:

hi all... this is gonna sound dumb... is there a way to sign in on the ipad wfmu app?
Avatar 6:05pm
TDK60:

They just need rakes. [x]
Avatar 6:05pm
geezerette:

...Ken...
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:06pm
ultradamno:

@david Yes! I'm using one right now!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:06pm
chresti:

Hello! The east coast gets blizzards and hurricanes- something that doesn't happen in California
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:07pm
Michael 98145:

now it appears PG&E power lines maybe started the Pleasure, er, Paradise, CA fires.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:07pm
ultradamno:

Oh, you said sign on. You can comment, but I'm not sure you can sign on.
Avatar 6:07pm
geezerette:

TDK60, :D! You mean in "Pleasure"?

Thanks, Mark!
Avatar 6:07pm
david_:

@ultradamno got it
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:08pm
ultradamno:

Native American
  6:08pm
carrots:

ArisTechcrats!!
Avatar 6:09pm
TDK60:

geezerette: of course, "Pleasure," Calif,
Avatar 6:09pm
Jeff Moore:

Hey, @david_: it's not a dumb question at all.

Unfortunately, we don't yet have the iOS or Android WFMU apps integrated with Friendship Society / KenzoDB logins.

On your iPad you could visit this playlist page in mobile Safari to do properly logged-in commenting and song favoriting.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:10pm
ultradamno:

It's a play on Wampanoag
Avatar 6:10pm
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

'On the Media' just had a great segment on this Amazon biz :
www.wnycstudios.org...
Avatar 6:11pm
Jeff Moore:

It was a complete coincidence that after all that the two sites chosen happened to be the places Jeff B already had homes.
Avatar 6:11pm
herb.nyc:

If Dave Hill were here, he'd say Amazon HQ2 is "in my pants".
Avatar 6:11pm
TDK60:

Did you hear? The NY State governor said he'd like to change his first name to "Amazon." True!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:11pm
Michael 98145:

wait until you new Amazonians start paying astronomical property taxes to give Amazon its tax breaks
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:11pm
Megaroni:

Thanks Techtonic! Love this show
Avatar 6:11pm
david_:

@jeff thanks, doing so now!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:11pm
queems:

guhhhhhhh
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:12pm
Mister Dobalina:

I'm sure there were lots of kickbacks for nYc politicians as well.
Avatar 6:12pm
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

(Been listening very gratefully to 'On The Media' lately btw...)
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:12pm
queems:

that comic is about to be my life every day
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:12pm
Folsom:

Links still don't open up in a separate tab/window.
Avatar 6:12pm
geezerette:

So pathetic.
Avatar 6:13pm
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

'Amazon wants to BE the market'...
Avatar 6:13pm
TDK60:

Whatever happened to that "progressive" mayor of New York City?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:13pm
queems:

glad deblasio and cuomo finally found something to agree on at everyone else's expense
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:13pm
Mister Dobalina:

This is almost as horrible of a deal if not worst than the Foxconn deal in Wisconsin.
Avatar 6:14pm
Jeff Moore:

Was it the OTM piece which had that nice discussion of monopoly vs. monopsony?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:14pm
dale:

why doesn't amazon put a headquarters in a city that needs growth, like detroit?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:14pm
Michael 98145:

are we to understand Foxconn is importing Chinese to work in this factory?
Avatar 6:15pm
geezerette:

So much for momm&pop buissnesses in Jacson Hts, etc. Goodbye to actual diversity...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:15pm
queems:

it took me 5 hours to get home but i know people who had it way worse
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:15pm
Mister Dobalina:

The tax cuts roughly translate to about $350 dollars for every New York resident, handed over to Amazon.
  6:16pm
melinda:

That happened in Portland ME several years ago, a small amount of snow and total chaos.
Avatar 6:16pm
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

Reminds me of what Harry Shearer is always saying about the Olympics...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:16pm
Fuzzy:

"It's a big club...and YOU AIN'T IN IT."
Avatar 6:17pm
geezerette:

We are serfs.
  6:17pm
Tyuge:

Amen.
Avatar 6:18pm
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

Yeah - down a Marxist peg from Capitalism to Feudalism...there's your supposed 'Free Market'...
Avatar 6:18pm
Jeff Moore:

Democratic Socialist.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:18pm
Michael 98145:

Seattle has so many homeless living on the streets it's starting to look like New Delhi. (apologies to India.)
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:18pm
Mister Dobalina:

The cartoon of people sitting on top of the 7 train which runs through a good part of western Queens is dead on. That line, like most of the MTA is super out of control hectic especially during rush hours.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:18pm
Folsom:

On The Media had an interview with David Dayen talking about all the data the cities gave to Amazon was worth more than the handouts.
  6:19pm
Zetti:

Bezos earns 191K per minute.
Avatar 6:19pm
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

Data Monopoly...Digital Monopoly...
  6:19pm
carrots:

go'head!!
Avatar 6:20pm
geezerette:

Michael, 52,000 in L.A ;growing in every city in U.S..
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:20pm
dale:

rev rab, i was just listening to someone, maybe sliwa, talk about how nobody wants the olympics in their city anymore (except dictators) because the money they hoped for never really materializes.
  6:20pm
jane:

talked with a business owner in Astoria Queens last wk.
He said that Amazon will not be obligated to pay any taxes, in perpetuity if they stay located Queens
Avatar 6:20pm
Jeff Moore:

Yay, economic golden showers.
Avatar 6:22pm
geezerette:

Jeff! Good one!
Avatar 6:22pm
Monica:

Read that WSJ editorial. Shame on Cuomo and DeBlasio. It's like they paid a handsome prince in order to marry off their ugly daughter when, in fact,she already has many suitors. I live in Sunnyside (part of LIC), btw.
Avatar 6:22pm
TDK60:

Don't get me started on the subway...
Avatar 6:24pm
TDK60:

Jeff, it's nothing personal. Actually, as a person, he doesn't interest me at all.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:24pm
Ken From Hyde Park:

Facebook in the funny papers: www.mallardfillmore.com...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:24pm
mrdonutsu:

HQ2 isn't nearly as big a story as FB. It's just your NYC bias. HA! ;)
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:25pm
northguineahills:

There was once a proposal to put an overheard freeway connected to the BQE to Maspeth/Sunnyside/Ridgewood/East Williamsburg/Greenpoint for truck traffic. Anything come from that.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:26pm
northguineahills:

(It seems said throughway would be germane to HQ2.
Avatar 6:27pm
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

What about the News this week that faceborg hired a PR firm the Republicans used to smear Soros ? :
www.npr.org...
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:28pm
Folsom:

Virginia putting $1B into education for Amazon, you would think they would do that anyway to improve odds of companies locating in Virginia.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:29pm
ultradamno:

From Wiki: The Wampanoag originally spoke Wôpanâak, a dialect of the Massachusett language which belongs to the Algonquian languages family
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:32pm
Mark Hurst:

Hi everyone!
@ultradamno - ahh thanks, now I get it
@Folsom - thx, I should listen to that interview. Sounds right.... also, for links, reload & try it again :)
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:33pm
Mark Hurst:

@Queems, sorry that the subway out there is going to be jammed. Too bad we don't have enough resources to fix the subway infra... "who knows where all the money went!"
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:33pm
Webhamster Henry:

It's the old "teaching to the test" / "learning to the test" problem.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:33pm
Mark Hurst:

@RevRabbit, @mrdonutsu - yes, I should still say something about FB. that's also a huge story. I just needed to move on to the interview.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:34pm
Michael 98145:

love the story about gaming the job application robots.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:34pm
Webhamster Henry:

This white text thing is like the old Baysiian spam foolers!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:35pm
Folsom:

@mark thanks for fixing the links! Here's the link to On The Media about Amazon: www.wnycstudios.org...
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:38pm
Ken From Hyde Park:

Automobile manufacturer looking for additional revenue streams has an idea: selling your data. www.freep.com... ("Facebook as a model" ... They want your driving experience to be more open and connected? Ugh!)
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:38pm
Alison Porchnik:

Safiyah Noble has been doing a lot of work on search algorithms. It goes way beyond "Your Google isn't my Google." www.technologyreview.com...
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:39pm
Folsom:

I missed the David Brin book, was it "The Transparent Society"?
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:39pm
Webhamster Henry:

As if you aren't training driving AIs every time you have to fill in a CAPTCHA these days.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:40pm
Folsom:

@ken there is a guy at work who put in a dongle into his OBD2 port to tell his insurance what/how he drives, gets lower rates.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:41pm
Michael 98145:

"The Transparent Society: Will Technology Force Us To Choose Between Privacy And Freedom?" i believe
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:42pm
Mark Hurst:

@Alison - thanks, good pointer - I hope Safiyah Noble will be on the show at some point.
Avatar 6:42pm
geezerette:

Tragic.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:43pm
Mark Hurst:

@KenfromHP - yes - another item I wanted to mention, ran out of time. Ford diving into surveillance capitalism!
Avatar 6:43pm
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

Drumpf obviously cares nothing for facts nor consistency.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:44pm
Michael 98145:

From The Black Box Society blurb: "Self-serving and reckless behavior is surprisingly common, and easy to hide in code protected by legal and real secrecy."
  6:45pm
Robert Tables:

@Henry, yes I hate that I'm doing free work for google by solving those.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:45pm
Michael 98145:

The current regime will do nothing to curb this data mining.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:47pm
northguineahills:

@Henry: Am bot. Turing test passed!
Avatar 6:47pm
geezerette:

The Stasi never dreamt of this kind of power.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:48pm
Alison Porchnik:

@Mark - that would be great! I saw her speak last year. Really fascinating/disturbing stuff.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:49pm
northguineahills:

I seemed to be drawn like a moth to flame to all of the horrifying museums in Berlin (stasi, SS, Holocaust (that one was amazing from an artistic POV).
Avatar 6:49pm
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

@Michael98145:
...unless it appealed to his Base. Drumpf's happy to play things both ways if it serves him.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:49pm
northguineahills:

then there's the currywurst museum....
Avatar 6:50pm
geezerette:

For perspective, Thomas Edison, Henry Ford...
The tussle never stops.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:51pm
Folsom:

Any response from Michael Chertoff for an interview?
Avatar 6:51pm
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

Ford was all kinds of Antisemitic...
Avatar 6:53pm
geezerette:

RR, extreme.
Avatar 6:57pm
geezerette:

Mark, thanks for doing this!
Enjoy the holiday!
Avatar 6:57pm
TDK60:

Thanks Mark.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:58pm
Michael 98145:

thanks again, Mark H
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:59pm
Bas NL:

Thanks Mark & Frank!
  6:59pm
Tyuge:

Thank you Mark. I've enjoyed the energy the past few episodes.. lots to be angry about.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 7:00pm
Webhamster Henry:

Thanks Mark! I'll have to catch the front end of the show in the archives.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:02pm
Mark Hurst:

Thanks, everyone! geezerette, TDK60, Michael, Bas, Tyuge, WHenry, everyone. Have a happy Thanksgiving, if you're in the US.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:02pm
Mark Hurst:

@Folsom, unfortunately never heard back. Tried multiple times.
Avatar 7:02pm
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

Thx MH !
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:05pm
Mark Hurst:

@Thx, RR, have a good week
Avatar Swag For Life Member 9:19pm
Michael 98145:

Seriously, though. Amazon has done little more for Seattle than attract a horde with little or no investment in the city, driven up house prices ( and property taxes ) so high long-time residents are leaving for other towns, and done little to alleviate the homeless crisis.
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