Favoriting Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from May 16, 2022 Favoriting

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Favoriting May 16, 2022: Perry Metzger interview (cryptocurrencies, Bitcoin), with guest host Dave Mandl

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Artist Track Album Label Approx. start time
L'Ensemble Rayé  Phare-est   Favoriting Quelques Pièces Détachées  AYAA   
Perry Metzger  Interview   Favoriting     0:01:15 (Pop-up)


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Listener comments!

  6:00pm
Meesalikeu:

ok let’s tech!
  6:01pm
morphe':

Don't Tech me There.....
original version
  6:01pm
Listener Robert:

I had to drop Dime Store today to listen to this, since I know Dave Mandl from LBC and Perry Metzger from LPNYC (where he succeeded me as chair). I'm sitting here with Don Meinshausen, both of us eager to hear.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:01pm
Webhamster Henry:

Hi Dave & Perry! Perry: I'm still using rsynch because of you.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:02pm
Bas NL:

Hello Dave! Hello Techtonicatici!
Avatar 6:03pm
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

So - enabling the Decentralization that was the original promise of the Internet
- or just another ethically corrupt Ponzi scheme - & environmentally devastating technocracy.
May I venture a guess ?
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:04pm
tim from washington:

Hi Dave! I'm looking forward to the interview. You can't spell Crypto without C-R-Y-P-T.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:04pm
Handy Haversack:

Hi, Dave and all. Gotta get cleaned up and ready to go play softball in the rain, apparently. But listening!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:04pm
Webhamster Henry:

Krypto the Super dog is jealous of Doge.
Avatar 6:04pm
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

'Crypto' literally 'secret' or hidden.
Avatar 🤖 6:04pm
Dave Mandl:

Hello all! Glad to be here.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:05pm
chresti:

Hi Dave !
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:05pm
tim from washington:

Handy - That sounds like a MacArthur park worthy practice.
  6:05pm
morphe':

Listener Robert - wow - I am Morphe' from St Marks BkShop = 1982 and LBC at the Anti-WAR Layfayette space .. Michael of Nebraska, Chicago is still a good. friend ..
Avatar 🤖 6:06pm
Dave Mandl:

Meesalikeu, morphe', Listener R, Henry, Bas, RRN63, tim, Handy, chresti: Hello!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:06pm
Niall:

I like how blockchain is a ledger and transparent, except for when it isn't.
  6:06pm
yippie:

not all cryptocurrencies are bad for the environment. each one is different. some are eco friendly
  6:06pm
Rolando:

Everyone, Hello. I love how Mark hands this tricky subject to our guest 😁
Avatar 🤖 6:07pm
Dave Mandl:

Robert: Wow, the LBC.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:08pm
StringOFperils:

What IS the LBC? (not nearly local to you here)
  6:08pm
stucco toast:

I go with: ponzi. There is promise, but inequality is worse than dollars. For other uses (distributed ledger/database), it will be used by the elite for greater control (eg never have their properties taken).
  6:08pm
Listener Robert:

Uh, WHICH Michael, Morphé? I knew a few from back there.
Avatar 🤖 6:09pm
Dave Mandl:

LBC=Libertarian Book Club, a long-running anarchist (not Libertarian) group in NYC.
Avatar 6:09pm
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

No! No! The Western Capitalist Free Market reflects a fair state of Nature ! ...That's why I can pay Rent with these oak leaves here...
  6:09pm
Listener Robert:

Perils, it's Libertarian Book Club, which conducted an Anarchist Forum Series.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:09pm
StringOFperils:

Ah, thank you. Interesting.
Avatar 6:10pm
Doug in MP:

woof moo coins?
  6:10pm
stucco toast:

'luminati banking corp (LBC)
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:10pm
melinda:

hello friends
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:10pm
melinda:

@stucco toast haha
  6:10pm
Listener Robert:

LBC came out of the Lawrence Labadie estate, approximately same source as WRL and Pacifica.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:11pm
Franco Twinkie:

Is there verifiable proof that this benefits anyone?
Avatar 🤖 6:11pm
Dave Mandl:

LBC goes way back to the 1930s or even '20s, I think.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:12pm
Ciggy:

CUSIP
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:12pm
Webhamster Henry:

This just in: [Wired] A newly unsealed opinion is likely the first decision from a US federal court to find that cryptocurrencies can't be used to evade sanctions.
  6:13pm
Listener Robert:

No, LBC is SLIGHTLY more recent, formed shortly after WW2 to get back into print some anarchist classic books that'd gone out of print.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:13pm
_Ike_:

@Franco, I presume we're going to get to that, but I suspect the short answer is no -- besides money launderers, billionaires, con artists, and human-rights violators, for the most part.
Avatar 6:13pm
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

...did I mention Ethics...
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:14pm
Bas NL:

The ledger is the comments board. Let's all here have a billion Techtonicoins. Start spending... now.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:15pm
Franco Twinkie:

That's assumed Ike. Now, why would you or me want to take part in this arcane and hermetic system.
Avatar 6:16pm
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

...that doesn't sound like the Bas NL I know ...do you have proof...
  6:16pm
Listener Robert:

I was hoping the Wikipedia entry on Laurance Labadie (how they spell it) would explain these connections, but as of now it doesn't.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:17pm
StringOFperils:

Verifiable proof is crated up and stored in a sub-basement of The Smithsonian, somewhere near the laudanum bottles and telegraph keys.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:18pm
Ken From Hyde Park:

Does cryptocurrency allow Russia to avoid sanctions? That's my concern.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:19pm
Bas NL:

Just trust the comments board Rev Rabbit! And trust me.. you can have my billion Techtonicoins.
Avatar 6:19pm
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

...well - now yer talkin'...
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:19pm
Franco Twinkie:

I like that Bas NL. Let's all become doubters and sceptics like Mark Hurst....and yell at the top of our lungs about this subterfuge.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:20pm
_Ike_:

@KfHP, good point. Though I also spoke with a more liberal-minded Russian who said he might be able to donate to anti-authoritarian journalists using cryptocurrency. But I'm not sure if he actually did it, or if he was just looking into it, and he wasn't certain that P-tin wouldn't be able to find out about it. The *idea* isn't that P-tin wouldn't, but....
Avatar 6:21pm
Rolando:

There is no such thing as a free lunch (gosh I did not know that the fee's were so high) Mark posted somewhere an amazing chart of what your digital currency would be worth if you purchased 100 dollars in each major currency six months ago.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:22pm
Bas NL:

Yes Franco T. Or just make and be the system... i feel free (and poor) already. ;)
Avatar 6:23pm
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

Accept as a truism that Putin deals in criminal finance - but have heard that cryptocurrencies had also enabled donations to Ukraine.
  6:24pm
P-90:

Can I just admit that cryptocurrency has bored me ever since it appeared? Anyone else? It was crystal clear to me that Bitcoin was a failure from its original conception, since than it’s been just one of those things where you watch for years as everyone gradually figures out that it’s NOT what some people hoped it would be.
  6:25pm
Shamoo:

So, good, old-fashioned cash is king for privacy?
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:25pm
Webhamster Henry:

That security breach is mostly out of band, but correlating out of band transactions is what public surveillance culture is all about.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:27pm
tim from washington:

@P-90 - Similarly, the buttholes who are trying to get filthy rich from ctyptocurrency are trying to live out the real life Dire Straits song: money for nothing and chicks for free.
  6:27pm
Shamoo:

One of the absolute worst aspects of crypto, to me, is the energy it requires. I think that should be mentioned in every public discussion
Avatar 🤖 6:28pm
Dave Mandl:

He'll get to that.
Avatar 6:28pm
Carmichael:

Heya Dave and tech heads. Been a rough Monday.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:29pm
Handy Haversack:

Hey, Carmichael. Sorry to hear it. Tiki torches going to be able to help?
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:30pm
Webhamster Henry:

there area other alternative currencies - still centrally maintained, which don't have those fees and you could get your coffee and bagel with them ... usually something a little more artisanal, but still.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:30pm
Franco Twinkie:

The inane assumption that we all need more and more accretion of wealth beyond the unknowable projection of what we can spend before we die is just another symptom of the mass insecurity that's ground into our faces every time we engage with the landslide of media that is inescapable.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:30pm
StringOFperils:

The terror of having less.
Avatar 6:31pm
Carmichael:

He, that's a weekend thing Handy. buncha people in my office attended a vendor outreach event, and now they all have COVID. I have been filling out paperwork all day.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:31pm
Franco Twinkie:

YES!
  6:31pm
stucco toast:

that's the foundation of our consumer capitalist society !
more more more
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:31pm
Webhamster Henry:

The rich are not rich enough, though. Every law we approve tries to redress this awful problem.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:31pm
tim from washington:

@Webhamster - The bagels and coffee are a little more artisanal? ;)
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:32pm
Handy Haversack:

Oof.
  6:32pm
P-90:

@tim: it’s mostly just another Beanie Baby to invest in, hoping to make a killing by stiffing the other guy before the whole thing collapses. An Internet tulip bulb craze. The other “use”, as a “free currency”, has been employed by criminals to move money around, but it’s far from the first or best way to do that.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:33pm
Bas NL:

Let's go native and pay by hands full of horse manure. Nobody likes the idea of being filthy rich. And mining horse manure is a real effort.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:33pm
Webhamster Henry:

@tim from washington hand grown whole wheat, sustainably harvested, non exploitative coffee beans...
Avatar 6:33pm
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

Tulip Boom ✔︎ on Bingo card
- Thx P-90.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:34pm
Franco Twinkie:

To technical!? Run like hell nd don't look back.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:34pm
tim from washington:

Can cryptocurrency miners skirt child labor laws and have minor miners.?
Avatar 🤖 6:36pm
MarciB:

This is going to require repeated listening!
Avatar 🤖 6:37pm
Dave Mandl:

@MarciB: Yup.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:38pm
Handy Haversack:

Even Hercules found it laborious, Bas.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:38pm
efd:

@tim from washington the real trouble starts when those underage miners have those birds that talk a lot.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:39pm
McGroovey:

Bitcoin=tulip bulbs, except that if you throw bitcoins away, flowers don't grow.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:39pm
Handy Haversack:

Hey, that's mine, ah, bird!
  6:40pm
stucco toast:

birds aren't real
Avatar 6:40pm
Jeff Moore:

An example of just the sort of discussion fallout I was hoping for when I tuned in:

If you look for discussions of The Byzantine Generals Problem, you'll find a paper co-written by Leslie Lamport – whom I know and love as the author of LaTeX, my favorite document description language.

(LaTeX is a sub-environment of, and written in, Knuth's TeX)

(sort of like the way Emacs started out as a set of TECO macros)
  6:40pm
P-90:

“minor miner’s minahs?
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:40pm
Bas NL:

Hercules probably wasn't very rich, Handy?
  6:42pm
stucco toast:

but boy could he clean stables
  6:43pm
Rolando:

Excellent Guest Interview - so pleased to learn about these issues
Avatar 6:43pm
Carmichael:

What language is that, Jeff?! 🙃
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:43pm
Franco Twinkie:

Kind of crazy, kind of crazy. Hmmm? Was this ever a consideration of the people who concocted this madness in the first place?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:43pm
StringOFperils:

Elephantine side-issue: The use of fossil-fuels for electricity generation continues to increase in both absolute and relative terms: in 2017, fossil fuels generated 64.5% of worldwide electricity, compared with 61.9% in 1990. Much of it is sourced from Russia and, so far, the awkward and difficult refusal or inability of several nations to stop that is WHY the sanctions on Russia won't work.
  6:44pm
P-90:

All the talk about how much electricity Bitcoin burns just underlines what a ridiculous joke the whole thing is.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:44pm
Webhamster Henry:

We can have a whole conversation about non-crypto banks still holding transactions to get extra fees, and having interest rates that are nowhere near the real transaction cost or the interest rates the banks get from the fed.
Avatar 6:44pm
Fredericks:

Bitcoin is far worst than I thought.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:45pm
tim from washington:

efd @ 6:38 - you think of everything!
  6:45pm
P-90:

@String: the sanctions on Russia have already worked, spectacularly
Avatar 6:46pm
Fredericks:

Dave, you are doing a wonderful job. Thanks for interviewing this guy.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:46pm
BnowB:

I just read.. crypto mining would be in the top 30 of countries based on energy consumption.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:46pm
DanFA:

I can just see Mark's blood pressure rising.
Avatar 🤖 6:46pm
MarciB:

I've been hearing so much about "creator coin" with the advent of web3. I'm assuming its a type of crytpocurrency but not sure.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:46pm
Webhamster Henry:

Perry is a well known crypto (qua crypto) expert.
Avatar 🤖 6:46pm
Dave Mandl:

@Fredericks: Thanks! I pretty much just sat back and let him speak.
Avatar 6:47pm
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

'Motivated Reasoning' ...if I got nothing else from this...
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:48pm
Franco Twinkie:

As everyone on this comment board thinks about their total liquid assets and equity combined, who would wager two cents on this insanity?
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:48pm
Bas NL:

Solar panels today still barely produce the energy during their life needed in making them.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:48pm
melinda:

@Rev same here
  6:50pm
stucco toast:

Are you trying to tell me my money isn't safe in the Bank of Rugpull ?
  6:51pm
P-90:

“Toy Computer”
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:51pm
Webhamster Henry:

I own 0.0068 ETH
You can send me more at jhhljhhl.eth
Avatar 6:52pm
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

Robber Barons & the Wild West @ once ?
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:52pm
Fishtown Mike:

bitcoinminingheater.com
Ruining the economy and the environment at the same time.
  6:54pm
P-90:

Dave pressing for a conclusion to all this, gets answer: “I don’t know…”
  6:54pm
Jerry:

Who started this sh*t show, i.e., crypto? It is boring, sorry, I think that is why it has even lasted as long as it has. Hard to sustain attention to grasp
Avatar 🤖 6:55pm
Dave Mandl:

@P-90: LOL.
  6:56pm
stucco toast:

A good non-technical video on some more/other problems:
Line Goes Up – The Problem With NFTs.
(show your friends, family before they do something dumb)
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:56pm
chresti:

So crypto currency is bad?
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:56pm
Franco Twinkie:

There are Gordian Knots worth considering as a solvable puzzle, and then there are confusions of maggots roiling on rotten meat.
Avatar 6:56pm
mespr:

I spent most of my bitcoin on beer, thinking it was a currency. I have a 5BTC wonky desktop I bought on overstock. I'm defending cyrpto because it's the future of banking. Neither stock nor currency, but a means to exchange value. It's better than Swift. It's how no one owns banking. That's good for everyone.
  6:57pm
Jerry:

That's the key to creating systems that elude attention--make them super boring
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:57pm
melinda:

haha, love his reaction to nfts
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:57pm
DanFA:

NFT (National Football Token)
Avatar 6:57pm
Jeff Moore:

"NFTs, which are... oh, God."
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:57pm
DanFA:

@Chresti, yes, very bad. Not good. Very bad for you.
Avatar 6:57pm
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

One thing - it's awkward (for some of us) to come down on the side of Bankers & the Federal Govt.
Avatar 6:58pm
Carmichael:

Crypto is just stupid. It really serves no purpose, other than to accumulate fake wealth. Just like Facebook friends.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:58pm
Webhamster Henry:

Aw, Perry, AI's will write flawless software!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:58pm
chresti:

If crypto currency could talk, I imagine it would sound like Perry.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:58pm
McGroovey:

... Almost as dependable as software... ~~shudder~~
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:58pm
Franco Twinkie:

RESIST!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:59pm
Ken From Hyde Park:

Thanks, Dave & Perry. In summary: It's a Ponzi scheme, isn't it?
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:59pm
efd:

Thanks for this, Dave!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:59pm
Threemoons 🌛🌕🌜:

Awesome show!!
  6:59pm
morphe':

Thanks Dave and all ..
Avatar 6:59pm
Carmichael:

Perry Como.
  6:59pm
P-90:

@Jerry: you can spot it as a scam immediately and be bored by it because that’s all it is, or you can get sucked into potentially endless fascination with all the technical details, desperately hoping to figure out how to make it work for you.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:59pm
StringOFperils:

Lemme see, I have about 23 bucks in legacy currency, so...This is like watching polo for me, but very interesting nonetheless. Thank you Dave and Perry. And P-90, thank you, I would have been better to add the word 'definitively' at the end of my earlier comment.
Avatar 🤖 6:59pm
MarciB:

Yes more Perry!
Avatar 6:59pm
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

@Franco: Of course - Alexander took a sword to the Gordian Knot as his solution...
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:59pm
Bas NL:

Thanks Dave & Perry!
  Swag For Life Member 6:59pm
SeaCreature:

For me, super interesting nerdy show.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:59pm
melinda:

thanks dave, this was great, going to listen again!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:59pm
Handy Haversack:

Thanks, Dave, Perry!

And thanks, softball league for not making us go play in this storm!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:59pm
DanFA:

Good interview.
Avatar 🤖 6:59pm
MarciB:

Thanks Dave, excellent interview!
  6:59pm
Jerry:

It took centuries for money and currency to evolve. Another example of a f'd up system created by IT "geniuses"
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:59pm
tim from washington:

Thanks, Dave! This was quite insightful.
Avatar 6:59pm
Rolando:

Same thing with NUCLEAR - we have the human side to deal with, the explanation comparing it with Software is excellent. Yes please return Thanks Perry. Thanks Dave
Avatar 6:59pm
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

'One should avoid taking about NFTs while eating.'
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:00pm
chresti:

Thanks Dave!
  7:00pm
P-90:

What’s even more boring and useless than cryptocurrency? NFTs.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:00pm
melinda:

@Jerry sure seems that way
Avatar 7:00pm
mespr:

Nope. Not stupid. Look way back in history. Money matters. No one controls crypto, That's the point. Nothing else. All currency is fake.
Avatar 🤖 7:01pm
Dave Mandl:

Thanks and good night, all!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:01pm
BnowB:

thanks great show
Avatar 7:01pm
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

Jerry - I think that's the nail on the head. To my mind - retrocompatibility is often a trait of *actually* good Engineering.
  7:01pm
P-90:

Thanks @Dave!
Avatar 7:01pm
Jeff Moore:

Thanks, Dave (and PM)!
  7:02pm
Listener Robert:

In that case I'll stay on main channel instead of switching to Sheena's for half of Dimestore. Thanks, it was informative and fun.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 7:02pm
Webhamster Henry:

Thanks Dave & Perry good to hear your voices!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 7:02pm
Handy Haversack:

Great summaries of crypto and NFTs also in pix on this Techtonic playlist: www.wfmu.org...
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 7:03pm
Handy Haversack:

I love this deeply: wfmu.org...
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 7:03pm
Webhamster Henry:

Hey Dave, how about putting the bed music in the playlist?
  7:03pm
stucco toast:

oh i can post links here? here's the
Line Goes Up – The Problem With NFTs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ_xWvX1n9g&ab_channel=FoldingIdeas
Avatar 7:04pm
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

Anything - *anything* but changing what Weatlh means in terms of Social Equity, Quality of Life - &/or even the Democratic Will of the actual Majority. Nothing Predatory to see here... Perpetuate the Myth of Scarcity even @ the cost of all the electricity in the world...
Avatar 🤖 7:05pm
Dave Mandl:

Henry: Too late. It's the group Klimperei, track title: "Phare-est."
  7:05pm
Jerry:

Thank you, RR63!
  7:07pm
Jerry:

Thank you, Handy--shows the total insanity of it. And because it is using all those resources OF THE WORLD it really needs regulation!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 2:13pm
John Dalton:

Listening on the archive. Thanks, Dave and Perry!
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