WFMU: Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from February 15, 2021

Listener comments!
	♥ 6:03pm full_english_breakfast: Claims that China is putting Uighurs in concentration camps or committing genocide against them are provocative, serious charges. Such claims should be backed by strong evidence and the presented evidence deserves close scrutiny (remember Iraq WMDs?). I hope your interview with guest Andrea Pitzer (she has previously commented on this issue) brings us closer to the truth. Thanks Mark!
	♥ 6:03pm Webhamster Henry: Ahah! Comments are back!
	♥ 6:03pm ultradamno: Mark! Techtonigal sons and daughters!
	♥ 6:03pm Handy Haversack: And we're back! Greetings, Mark and all the Techyon Drives! Hey, ultradamno!
	♥ 6:03pm HyperDose: Love it when ultradamno bust in like the Kool-Aid man with the enthusiastic greetings!
	♥ 6:04pm AE Steve: Hello! Looking forward to learning about Barents!
	♥ 6:04pm ultradamno: Hiya HH, HD!
	♥ 6:05pm Bas NL: Hi Mark! All! And Willem Barentsz is well known in Dutch history.
	6:05pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Gong Xi Fa Cai ! ! Happy Metal Ox Everyone ! ! Let us Persist (Ox-like) in our Digital Rights...
	♥ 6:05pm βrian: It was a great show. I intend to read the e-mail comments.
	♥ 6:06pm Webhamster Henry: Thanks Listener Chris for doing my bidding!
	♥ 6:06pm Handy Haversack: Super huge thanks to listener Cris! I will be sending that out to many people!
	6:06pm carrots: hey hey!
	♥ 6:06pm melinda: hi all!
	♥ 6:06pm ultradamno: So there's a new show on SyFy called Devil May Care, the premise of which largely revolves around Satan and his new assistant trying to launch a social media app in hell but being behind the curve in keeping up with the evil of it.
	6:07pm Ed: Thanks Chris!
	6:07pm carrots: no chat in the app?
	6:08pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Great episode last week.
	♥ 6:08pm ultradamno: They base it on snapchat but don't allow people to expose themselves "then I don't know what this is for" is a running line
	♥ 6:09pm Handy Haversack: Just finished reading a Danish book from the sixties about an expedition in the 1620s to find the NW Passage. Brutal book, basically about feudalism's death throes striking down independent spirits. But also about death on the ice. So it's on my mind!
	♥ 6:09pm WR: here.
	6:09pm Stashuuuu: I'm gonna go grab my parka
	♥ 6:09pm ultradamno: ...or chat roulette rather, if there's a difference.
	♥ 6:10pm Mark Hurst: Hi Stashu! Hi WR, ultra, RevRabbit, Ed, Melinda, Handy, Webham, Brian, Bas, HyperDose, and full English breakfast!
	♥ 6:10pm -Ken: Hi all
	6:10pm David in London: Hello Technoids!
	♥ 6:10pm ultradamno: I saw the giant couch shaped iceberg picture a couple of days ago. Impressive.
	♥ 6:10pm Mark Hurst: Hi Ken, welcome - and hi DiL
	♥ 6:10pm Ken From Hyde Park: Hi! Bezos & Musk dueling for who gets the secret lair in the Arctic?
	♥ 6:11pm Constance De Witt: Hi Mark and everyone! I think I have heard another interview with Andrea on CBC radio.
	6:11pm David in London: Handy, ultradamno, HyperDose, Rev Rabbit, Bas, Melinda. And Mark!
	6:11pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Mr. Unwin! Known to Tolkien heads... The kid says it got a good beat & you can dance to it...
	♥ 6:11pm Mark Hurst: @carrots hi - I'm not sure but I think chat should be fine in the app
	♥ 6:12pm melinda: @Ken haha! I'm picturing ice furniture covered with luxurious pelts.
	6:12pm Fredericks: Is Stan Rogers going to part of the discussion?
	6:12pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: So do Musk buy ALL of Bitcoin or the equivalent or what...
	♥ 6:12pm ultradamno: Hey DiL! OH YEAAAAAHHH!! (that's kool-aid man, right?)
	6:12pm JJ NY-SC: @carrots. Chat is fine on my android.
	♥ 6:12pm Handy Haversack: King of Denmark claimed the waters north of Scandinavia, and there are a lot of stories in what I read of Danish captains punishing Dutch and English expeditions toward Nova Zembla. I find this all totally fascinating.
	6:13pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Siberia is thawing in Warming & opening for Real Estate is what I heard...
	♥ 6:13pm Webhamster Henry: @Fredricks Franklin was lots later, but it's always worth playing Stan Rogers!
	♥ 6:14pm dale: a northern passage to china sounds grueling/horrifying.
	6:14pm JJ NY-SC: Actually, I found where chat is. Now I'm posting from it.
	♥ 6:15pm AE Steve: seven ships!!
	♥ 6:15pm Mark Hurst: @dale it really was
	♥ 6:15pm Mark Hurst: @AE hi, welcome :)
	6:16pm David in London: This is the worst trip...I’ve ever been on.
	♥ 6:16pm HyperDose: When is the cannibalism segment of the interview?
	6:16pm Fredericks: Thanks for straightening me out, WebHam. I'm late joining. I thought they were talking about Barrett's Privateers.
	♥ 6:17pm -Ken: At least things all worked out for the Polar Bears. Unlike these days.
	♥ 6:17pm AE Steve: "better a live donkey than a dead lion" (I think shackelton?)
	♥ 6:17pm Handy Haversack: Whales the other big winners up there, Ken!
	♥ 6:18pm Mark Hurst: Donkey vs. polar bear, who would win
	♥ 6:18pm -Ken: I had a repeat bear once
	♥ 6:18pm AE Steve: Scott would put his money on the donkey. typical
	♥ 6:18pm Handy Haversack: Can the donkey play basketball?
	6:18pm David in London: The Repeat Bears is the name of my new band.
	♥ 6:19pm DjLorraine: I was surprised there were polar bears in the SIngapore zoo on the equator
	♥ 6:19pm dale: polar bear rape is a real problem.
	♥ 6:19pm ultradamno: Bear repetition in your music...
	♥ 6:20pm AE Steve: The polar bear memoir of this winter must have been a very different read.
	♥ 6:20pm Webhamster Henry: There's a commemorative comic book about Ken's ursine experiences.Don't Miss: The Party Bears!
	6:20pm Marci: The Arctic is a fascinating subject and I look forward to reading this book. My friend Julian Sancton also has a book coming out called "Madhouse at the End of the Earth" about another polar explorer, Frederick Cook (a huckster like PT Barnum) on the Belgica expedition.
	♥ 6:20pm ultradamno: We're getting hit with snow here now...
	♥ 6:20pm Mark Hurst: @Marci sounds very interesting
	6:20pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: ...there was an episode of Subgenius Hour of Slack - whole thing was Stang telling his Dad's tale of spending weeks with Inuits... Not this expedition but an experience.
	6:22pm Marci: @Mark - yes, looking forward to reading both these books!
	♥ 6:22pm ultradamno: Almost as good as that iceberg is this Lake Michigan lighthouse twitter.com...
	♥ 6:23pm melinda: Ugh, I never really knew the details of scurvy
	♥ 6:23pm Bas NL: The adventure holiday pack...
	♥ 6:23pm AE Steve: euuuuuhhhhh - scurvy. Old wounds can open up.
	♥ 6:23pm Handy Haversack: Here's the Jens Munk book (the Danish expedition, but his whole life as servant to feudalism): www.abebooks.com...
	♥ 6:24pm Constance De Witt: I have learned from reading Lovecraft that polar expeditions are very risky...
	♥ 6:24pm dale: right melinda? rickets seems like a walk in the park. bow-legged, but a walk just the same.
	♥ 6:24pm Handy Haversack: Tekeli-li! Tekeli-li! Though technically that was the Antarctic.
	6:25pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: From evolving picking fruit...
	♥ 6:25pm Ken From Hyde Park: Haha, Smart KFHP bought a bag of oranges the last shopping trip, remaining safely scurvy-free in the winter of 2021.
	♥ 6:25pm AE Steve: wow, hadn't thought about how scurvy wasn't a common issue until longer travels started.
	♥ 6:25pm melinda: 'lime juice sailor' is a term I remember from sea shanties
	♥ 6:25pm Michael 98145: @Constance De Witt 😁
	♥ 6:26pm melinda: @dale haha
	6:26pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Hence 'Limeys' - bringing limes @ sea. Brittania Waves the Rules...
	6:26pm David in London: And even then we Limeys forgot the lessons of scurvy. When the Royal Navy later switched to lemons, sailors started to suffer from it again. Ultradamno, that picture is amazing.
	♥ 6:26pm dale: this reminds me of the green room with dorian. enjoyed that show.
	♥ 6:26pm AE Steve: I think it's the liver or some other similar organs that has vitamin c (when you don't have access to fresh fruits and veg)
	♥ 6:27pm Megaroni: Will look in my atlas, thanks Techtonic !
	♥ 6:27pm Mark Hurst: @AE there's a fair amount of description of scurvy's effects in this book... it's... yikes
	6:27pm carrots: ok, it works. thanks ! Great interview !
	6:27pm Davefrom Brooklyn: Wow, what a story. Thanks Mark for another intriguing hour
	6:27pm yippie: no i in arktos
	♥ 6:27pm Mark Hurst: @AE there's a scene that involves a liver, too
	♥ 6:27pm melinda: poor scurvied sailors forced to feel the burn
	♥ 6:28pm Handy Haversack: @AE Steve, yeah. Also just read Butcher's Crossing (amazing), and you eat the liver of the buffalo to prevent "buffalo sickness" when you're on a months-long buffalo hunt. Fun, right?
	6:28pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: My understanding is most animals synthesize their own endogenous Vit. C from other foods. But we Hairless Apes were fruit pickers...
	♥ 6:28pm Webhamster Henry: If you like this kind of exploration - check out Ernest Shackleton's Endurance Antarctic trip.
	♥ 6:29pm DjLorraine: I think sour kraut was also used in place of lime/citrus. Anyone else hear that?
	♥ 6:29pm Constance De Witt: They just should have brought a lactating lady to feed everyone on those boats.
	♥ 6:29pm dale: this sounds like a great netflix series. i like this kind of stuff.
	♥ 6:29pm ultradamno: If there are silent raves in The Quiet Place 2 someone will show up with bluetooth speakers screaming about freedom.
	♥ 6:29pm Bas NL: The Dutch Republic was powerful in the Golden Age!
	♥ 6:30pm -Ken: Thank you Listener Cris for that great books page!
	♥ 6:30pm Webhamster Henry: @Bas from NL: Please invade so we can surrender!
	♥ 6:30pm ifny: Hi all, loving the Arctic content. Thank you.
	♥ 6:31pm Mark Hurst: @ifny thanks, glad you're enjoying it
	♥ 6:31pm DjLorraine: vitamin C is needed to make collegen
	♥ 6:31pm Ken From Hyde Park: Circling back to Elon Musk again, with his plans for a Mars colony, I wonder what tragedies Techtonic listeners might discuss someday.
	♥ 6:32pm HyperDose: Imagine having a few and getting on a dogsled at night. I want to live that.
	♥ 6:32pm Bas NL: @WH He, he.. we swapped New Amsterdam for Surinam and change at the time..
	♥ 6:32pm AE Steve: THE RUINS OF HIS CABIN whhhhaaa how - almost 500 years old
	♥ 6:33pm Handy Haversack: Jens Munk went to the Netherlands to recruit whalers to come on his expeditions to the (now) Barents Sea. Bas, willing to hail you as an overlord whenever you give the word!
	♥ 6:33pm Mark Hurst: @Bas is William Barents still remembered as a national hero there in the Netherlands?
	♥ 6:35pm ifny: To read about a contemporary land defence issue in the Arctic, there is a group of Inuit hunters protecting their territory from a mine expansion with an airstrip blockade. The blockade has ceased for now: www.aptnnews.ca... The Baffinland mine threatens caribou amongst other species; even mine employees have written a letter supporting the hunters: www.cbc.ca...
	6:36pm yippie: a 2 year whaling journey to the south pacific would actually be a great way to spend covid
	♥ 6:36pm Bas NL: Yes, Willem Barentsz is still a celebrated hero. Near to me is a Willem Barentszstraat (street). Bartentsz is in full Barentszoon BTW. Son of Barents; like with the scandinavian -son.
	♥ 6:37pm Mark Hurst: @Bas interesting! thanks!
	♥ 6:37pm AE Steve: legends of failure - Scott's is a destructive legacy, lined up with WWI and British myth
	♥ 6:38pm ultradamno: You walrus hurt the ones with tusks...
	6:38pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: ' When you realize a forest only has value under Capitalism when it is cut down '...
	♥ 6:38pm Mark Hurst: wait... Scott failed?
	♥ 6:39pm Mark Hurst: (kidding)
	♥ 6:39pm Handy Haversack: Thanks for that, ifny! Lots of echoes in the stories of Barents and Munk. Ragged edges as oppression is switching horses from feudalism to mercantilism and capitalist exploitation. The later generations -- Scott, Amundsen, Perry -- much more firmly in empire and capital. But Munk was, later, probably, actually physically killed by the king he kept trying to serve by enduring unimaginable hardship and loss and sacrifice. tl;dr: Crazytown. Bananapants.
	♥ 6:39pm Ken From Hyde Park: There are videos of Russian arctic tourist voyages online, the icebreaker Kapitan Khlebnikov.
	♥ 6:40pm DjLorraine: Sauerkraut
	♥ 6:41pm AE Steve: Kookoo coconuts
	♥ 6:41pm Webhamster Henry: Well that's another one for the book checklist!
	6:41pm Andrea Pitzer: Sorry I scared you, Mark!
	♥ 6:42pm ifny: No, people have not learned enough from the legacy of colonialism, slavery, genocide, land expropriation etc. in the Americas or elsewhere. The Arctic is the centre of life and love for many Indigenous peoples, not "the edge of the world." A first step can be learning whose ancestral territory you are on today, and trying to reconnect with their stories and their struggles. native-land.ca
	♥ 6:42pm Handy Haversack: Great interview, @Andrea Pitzer! Thanks so much. Did you come across Jens Munk's story in your research?
	6:42pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: A late remote frontier of the 'New World'. & we make it all a Climate Wasteland to was with ...Also - our contempo Land of Cyber where we are Living - for which we have Feudalsim & no Bill of Rights...
	♥ 6:42pm melinda: I found the Barents Sea on my light-up globe
	♥ 6:43pm ifny: We all have a role to play in decolonization, and decolonization is one path to stopping climate change and refashioning our relationships with each other, nonhuman animals, and our fine blue green pea in space :)
	6:43pm The Butterman: If only we could terra form earth to make it habitable for a race of big brained biped mammals.
	♥ 6:43pm AE Steve: @ifny agree - it is interesting to learn of adaptations of Indigenous people to live at these latitudes. Lots to learn there
	6:43pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Shakespeare & the Renaissance including Empire & Exploration / Conquest. In his writing - the World in transition - Myth & Science not least of them...
	♥ 6:44pm Bas NL: @melinda Named after him.
	♥ 6:44pm dale: now i need to hear renbourn's lord franklin.
	6:44pm Dee cee: What is it with the white, male Europeans...so harmful, and greedy....shameful....
	♥ 6:45pm ifny: @AE Steve yass agreed. There are good initiatives hearkening from their climate expertise and knowledge e.g. unu.edu...
	6:45pm Davefrom Brooklyn: True sailing is dead. Jim Morrison.
	6:46pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Decolonization. Christianist conception of Dominian: Jehovah gave Nature to Man. 'Material' from Mater - Mother.
	6:46pm Andrea Pitzer: Yes, @Handy Haversack, I did come across Munk's story--there are so many astounding accounts.
	♥ 6:46pm AE Steve: @ifny great link
	♥ 6:47pm dale: isn't iceland the green place and greenland the icy place due to a mapmaker's gaff?
	6:47pm J&E in Ithaca NY: Crazy to think that much of whaling was done to fuel lamps with oil- to read at night and to accelerate the development of additional learning and tech
	♥ 6:48pm ultradamno: It's (greenland/iceland) popularly touted as deliberate misinformation, which is probably wrong.
	♥ 6:48pm Handy Haversack: One thing that blows me away about Munk is that after being icebound for 8-9 months in the Hudson Bay, he and his last two surviving crew members (out of two ships!) manage to sail one of those ships all the way back to Norway! Where he's thrown in jail!
	♥ 6:48pm ifny: Mining lithium for EV batteries is harmful, but also cryptomining is reliant on hydro energy, which is presented as green but is hugely climate and species disrupting.
	♥ 6:49pm ifny: And that's best-case scenario. Lots of cryptomining is coal fired.
	♥ 6:50pm dale: someone running for nyc comptroller was on curtis sliwa's show on wabc today. he was saying that he would invest the pension plans in cryptocurrency instead of relying on cash. all i could think of was the pied piper of hamlin.
	6:50pm annette: my dad once told me sailors during ww2 ate the skin if oranges to prevent scurvy. i get my vit c from tomatoes, but i still like the rind of navel oranges
	6:50pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Dee cee : Found this episode of On Being very insightful : onbeing.org... AfricanAmerican physical therapist discusses the somatic roots of racial stances - inherited over centuries. Africans experienced Slavery & still carry it - but Europeans experienced Feudalism & brutal exploitation that drove them to this 'New World' desperate for Individual power...
	♥ 6:51pm Bas NL: Wikipedia has a great page on Barentsz: en.wikipedia.org...
	6:52pm castor: Great interview! It makes me think of some report I heard out of Russia a couple years ago in which the Kremlin admitted it was optimistic about climate change because they were looking to benefit from an opened up arctic sea, and newly defrosted farmland in Siberia. There's actually a whole battle going on now over what country controls the arctic shipping routes based on the continental shelves, which is why when Trump said he wanted to buy Greenland I immediately understood why!
	♥ 6:52pm Rick from SC: I am the only one still spinning a globe?
	6:52pm ?: I highly recommend the series "Fall of Civilizations" on youtube
	♥ 6:53pm ifny: @Revolution Rabbit & Dee cee: Worth pointing out that England practiced colonisation, forced assimilation, and land-enclosure on the Welsh, Irish first etc.
	♥ 6:54pm AE Steve: Getting the book - great interview! And a++ polar bear images in playlist, Mark. I appreciate how the book and you link themes over the centuries through to now. Too often polar exploration books focus on one person's (or group's) struggles and how they overcame "nature" (or their own stupidity/pride).
	♥ 6:55pm ifny: Good 2019 run-down from a US perspective: 'The Political Geography and Environmental Impacts of Cryptocurrency Mining' jsis.washington.edu...
	♥ 6:55pm AE Steve: <<cough, cough>> Scott
	♥ 6:56pm Bas NL: www.cnbc.com...
	♥ 6:56pm HyperDose: Bravo Andrea. Riveting interview! Thank you Mark, Ken(s), and other studio ghouls who may be lingering behind the scenes. ❤️
	♥ 6:56pm Webhamster Henry: Some of those bitcoin mines are located in colder climes so their chips can get a boost in cooling. Also: near underused electric resources.
	6:56pm J a s o n: Absolutely correct. Bitcoin is a hustle for fools and overnight millionaires. A new economy does not = “our new economy”. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
	♥ 6:57pm Ken From Hyde Park: Bitcoin is the new tulip, you're saying?
	6:57pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Crypto decentralizing the Banks just like Interwebz decentralized everything else : Not.
	6:58pm Chuck Halbach: Mark your comments are on the Bitcoin (I mean money)...
	6:58pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Tulip Bubble !
	♥ 6:58pm melinda: @Rabbit right
	♥ 6:58pm ifny: Sending you all love and fan cooling! Thank you for another wonderful show @Mark. Please spread the word about the Baffinland resisistors -- it helps keep the community safe.
	♥ 6:58pm Handy Haversack: Thanks again, @Andrea Pitzer. Book's going on the reading list right now! "There are some people who are not internet billionaires" Mark Hurst says as he covers his head with a shroud so god can't see him eating an entire whole baked baby seal stuffed with ortolans and iPhones! Tulips. Exactly. Thanks, Mark! Another great show. Really, really enjoyed and appreciated. Stay tonicy, Tech Friends.
	♥ 6:58pm coelacanth∅: Thanks Mark and Andrea
	♥ 6:58pm Bas NL: Thanks Mark & Andrea!
	6:59pm yippie: there are 1000s of cryptos mostly junk but some nice ones
	♥ 6:59pm Webhamster Henry: Hey my $16 worth of Ethers is worth $57.59 now! $$$
	6:59pm Bea: Walrus mosh pit! Yes!
	♥ 6:59pm Webhamster Henry: Even Dogecoin is trending up!
	♥ 7:00pm HyperDose: This rips \m/
	♥ 7:00pm dale: love the concept of hearing music (as we know it) for the first time.
	♥ 7:00pm Handy Haversack: WFMU: the radio station most likely to be popular among walruses.
	♥ 7:00pm ifny: That song is 'my sweet and tender beast' :D
	♥ 7:00pm Webhamster Henry: They should have played a little Olga Podluzhnaya -- Or Vocal Fry!
	♥ 7:01pm Ken From Hyde Park: Rising sea levels are robbing the walruses of their traditional beachfront property. Thanks for today's show, Mark & Andrea!
	♥ 7:01pm Mark Hurst: Thanks, everyone!
	♥ 7:02pm WR: capitalism at any cost ? calculating actual cost of capitalist "success" stories.
	♥ 7:03pm WR: capitalist corporate entities succeeding at having others bear the cost.

Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from February 15, 2021

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Robots are judging sports today, from the Olympics to the minor leagues of baseball. On the next Techtonic, Mark discusses sports, tech, and a few movie picks with his friend Paul.

February 15, 2021: Andrea Pitzer, author, "Icebound: Shipwrecked at the Edge of the World"

Listen to this show: MP3 - 128K | Pop‑up player!

Tonight: Andrea Pitzer, author, "Icebound"

Links:

• Icebound: Shipwrecked at the Edge of the World, by Andrea Pitzer

• @andreapitzer (Twitter)

• AndreaPitzer.com (author site)

From listeners:

• Listener Cris writes, "On your Feb 1st show someone asked for a reading list of your books. I thought it sounded fun and simple so I did just that!" Here's the list.

• We've posted the emails from last week's show, when the comments board was disabled. Read them here.

News:

• From the University of Cambridge:

• Stephen Diehl (thread from Feb 8, 2021): "Q: What do you get when you mix Silicon Valley tech bros, multi-level marketing, Gamergate and the Church of Scientology? A: Bitcoin."

• The classic explanation of Bitcoin, from @Theophite (Aug 2018): "Imagine if keeping your car idling 24/7 produced solved Sudokus you could trade for heroin."

• Axios, Feb 8, 2021: "Bitcoin skyrocketed to record highs Monday morning, cracking $44,000 after Tesla revealed in a securities filing that it has bought $1.5 billion worth of the cryptocurrency and will start accepting it as a payment method for Tesla products."

• And then from Twitter CEO @jack:

• China Enters the Arctic Digitization Race (National Interest, Jan 17, 2021): "Unfolding in real-time is a new great game of sorts: the digitalization of the Arctic. Stakeholders range from public to private enterprises and include autocratic and democratic governments. The 'prize' is control over the flow of information within the Arctic, which affords both political and economic windfalls."

• For more reading: Bitcoin As A Meme And A Future (by Lana Swartz in Noema, Feb 11, 2021): "You set your money and its value outside the things you think are crumbling. You secure it with the things you see as eternal: cryptography and markets."

- - -

PAST EPISODES: techtonic.fm lists recent Techtonic interviews and Little Slice of Tech Pie segments.

PODCAST: Subscribe to the Techtonic podcast

Artist	Track	Approx. start time
Andrea Pitzer, author, "Icebound: Shipwrecked at the Edge of the World"
Tomaš Dvořák	Game Boy Tune
	Mark's intro
	Interview with Andrea Pitzer, part 1	0:06:43 (MP3 \| Pop‑up)
	Interview with Andrea Pitzer, part 2	0:24:19 (MP3 \| Pop‑up)
	Mark's comments after the interview	0:38:39 (MP3 \| Pop‑up)
	Walrus serenade	0:56:44 (MP3 \| Pop‑up)
	More walruses!	0:57:14 (MP3 \| Pop‑up)

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Listener comments!
	♥ 6:03pm full_english_breakfast: Claims that China is putting Uighurs in concentration camps or committing genocide against them are provocative, serious charges. Such claims should be backed by strong evidence and the presented evidence deserves close scrutiny (remember Iraq WMDs?). I hope your interview with guest Andrea Pitzer (she has previously commented on this issue) brings us closer to the truth. Thanks Mark!
	♥ 6:03pm Webhamster Henry: Ahah! Comments are back!
	♥ 6:03pm ultradamno: Mark! Techtonigal sons and daughters!
	♥ 6:03pm Handy Haversack: And we're back! Greetings, Mark and all the Techyon Drives! Hey, ultradamno!
	♥ 6:03pm HyperDose: Love it when ultradamno bust in like the Kool-Aid man with the enthusiastic greetings!
	♥ 6:04pm AE Steve: Hello! Looking forward to learning about Barents!
	♥ 6:04pm ultradamno: Hiya HH, HD!
	♥ 6:05pm Bas NL: Hi Mark! All! And Willem Barentsz is well known in Dutch history.
	6:05pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Gong Xi Fa Cai ! ! Happy Metal Ox Everyone ! ! Let us Persist (Ox-like) in our Digital Rights...
	♥ 6:05pm βrian: It was a great show. I intend to read the e-mail comments.
	♥ 6:06pm Webhamster Henry: Thanks Listener Chris for doing my bidding!
	♥ 6:06pm Handy Haversack: Super huge thanks to listener Cris! I will be sending that out to many people!
	6:06pm carrots: hey hey!
	♥ 6:06pm melinda: hi all!
	♥ 6:06pm ultradamno: So there's a new show on SyFy called Devil May Care, the premise of which largely revolves around Satan and his new assistant trying to launch a social media app in hell but being behind the curve in keeping up with the evil of it.
	6:07pm Ed: Thanks Chris!
	6:07pm carrots: no chat in the app?
	6:08pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Great episode last week.
	♥ 6:08pm ultradamno: They base it on snapchat but don't allow people to expose themselves "then I don't know what this is for" is a running line
	♥ 6:09pm Handy Haversack: Just finished reading a Danish book from the sixties about an expedition in the 1620s to find the NW Passage. Brutal book, basically about feudalism's death throes striking down independent spirits. But also about death on the ice. So it's on my mind!
	♥ 6:09pm WR: here.
	6:09pm Stashuuuu: I'm gonna go grab my parka
	♥ 6:09pm ultradamno: ...or chat roulette rather, if there's a difference.
	♥ 6:10pm Mark Hurst: Hi Stashu! Hi WR, ultra, RevRabbit, Ed, Melinda, Handy, Webham, Brian, Bas, HyperDose, and full English breakfast!
	♥ 6:10pm -Ken: Hi all
	6:10pm David in London: Hello Technoids!
	♥ 6:10pm ultradamno: I saw the giant couch shaped iceberg picture a couple of days ago. Impressive.
	♥ 6:10pm Mark Hurst: Hi Ken, welcome - and hi DiL
	♥ 6:10pm Ken From Hyde Park: Hi! Bezos & Musk dueling for who gets the secret lair in the Arctic?
	♥ 6:11pm Constance De Witt: Hi Mark and everyone! I think I have heard another interview with Andrea on CBC radio.
	6:11pm David in London: Handy, ultradamno, HyperDose, Rev Rabbit, Bas, Melinda. And Mark!
	6:11pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Mr. Unwin! Known to Tolkien heads... The kid says it got a good beat & you can dance to it...
	♥ 6:11pm Mark Hurst: @carrots hi - I'm not sure but I think chat should be fine in the app
	♥ 6:12pm melinda: @Ken haha! I'm picturing ice furniture covered with luxurious pelts.
	6:12pm Fredericks: Is Stan Rogers going to part of the discussion?
	6:12pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: So do Musk buy ALL of Bitcoin or the equivalent or what...
	♥ 6:12pm ultradamno: Hey DiL! OH YEAAAAAHHH!! (that's kool-aid man, right?)
	6:12pm JJ NY-SC: @carrots. Chat is fine on my android.
	♥ 6:12pm Handy Haversack: King of Denmark claimed the waters north of Scandinavia, and there are a lot of stories in what I read of Danish captains punishing Dutch and English expeditions toward Nova Zembla. I find this all totally fascinating.
	6:13pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Siberia is thawing in Warming & opening for Real Estate is what I heard...
	♥ 6:13pm Webhamster Henry: @Fredricks Franklin was lots later, but it's always worth playing Stan Rogers!
	♥ 6:14pm dale: a northern passage to china sounds grueling/horrifying.
	6:14pm JJ NY-SC: Actually, I found where chat is. Now I'm posting from it.
	♥ 6:15pm AE Steve: seven ships!!
	♥ 6:15pm Mark Hurst: @dale it really was
	♥ 6:15pm Mark Hurst: @AE hi, welcome :)
	6:16pm David in London: This is the worst trip...I’ve ever been on.
	♥ 6:16pm HyperDose: When is the cannibalism segment of the interview?
	6:16pm Fredericks: Thanks for straightening me out, WebHam. I'm late joining. I thought they were talking about Barrett's Privateers.
	♥ 6:17pm -Ken: At least things all worked out for the Polar Bears. Unlike these days.
	♥ 6:17pm AE Steve: "better a live donkey than a dead lion" (I think shackelton?)
	♥ 6:17pm Handy Haversack: Whales the other big winners up there, Ken!
	♥ 6:18pm Mark Hurst: Donkey vs. polar bear, who would win
	♥ 6:18pm -Ken: I had a repeat bear once
	♥ 6:18pm AE Steve: Scott would put his money on the donkey. typical
	♥ 6:18pm Handy Haversack: Can the donkey play basketball?
	6:18pm David in London: The Repeat Bears is the name of my new band.
	♥ 6:19pm DjLorraine: I was surprised there were polar bears in the SIngapore zoo on the equator
	♥ 6:19pm dale: polar bear rape is a real problem.
	♥ 6:19pm ultradamno: Bear repetition in your music...
	♥ 6:20pm AE Steve: The polar bear memoir of this winter must have been a very different read.
	♥ 6:20pm Webhamster Henry: There's a commemorative comic book about Ken's ursine experiences.Don't Miss: The Party Bears!
	6:20pm Marci: The Arctic is a fascinating subject and I look forward to reading this book. My friend Julian Sancton also has a book coming out called "Madhouse at the End of the Earth" about another polar explorer, Frederick Cook (a huckster like PT Barnum) on the Belgica expedition.
	♥ 6:20pm ultradamno: We're getting hit with snow here now...
	♥ 6:20pm Mark Hurst: @Marci sounds very interesting
	6:20pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: ...there was an episode of Subgenius Hour of Slack - whole thing was Stang telling his Dad's tale of spending weeks with Inuits... Not this expedition but an experience.
	6:22pm Marci: @Mark - yes, looking forward to reading both these books!
	♥ 6:22pm ultradamno: Almost as good as that iceberg is this Lake Michigan lighthouse twitter.com...
	♥ 6:23pm melinda: Ugh, I never really knew the details of scurvy
	♥ 6:23pm Bas NL: The adventure holiday pack...
	♥ 6:23pm AE Steve: euuuuuhhhhh - scurvy. Old wounds can open up.
	♥ 6:23pm Handy Haversack: Here's the Jens Munk book (the Danish expedition, but his whole life as servant to feudalism): www.abebooks.com...
	♥ 6:24pm Constance De Witt: I have learned from reading Lovecraft that polar expeditions are very risky...
	♥ 6:24pm dale: right melinda? rickets seems like a walk in the park. bow-legged, but a walk just the same.
	♥ 6:24pm Handy Haversack: Tekeli-li! Tekeli-li! Though technically that was the Antarctic.
	6:25pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: From evolving picking fruit...
	♥ 6:25pm Ken From Hyde Park: Haha, Smart KFHP bought a bag of oranges the last shopping trip, remaining safely scurvy-free in the winter of 2021.
	♥ 6:25pm AE Steve: wow, hadn't thought about how scurvy wasn't a common issue until longer travels started.
	♥ 6:25pm melinda: 'lime juice sailor' is a term I remember from sea shanties
	♥ 6:25pm Michael 98145: @Constance De Witt 😁
	♥ 6:26pm melinda: @dale haha
	6:26pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Hence 'Limeys' - bringing limes @ sea. Brittania Waves the Rules...
	6:26pm David in London: And even then we Limeys forgot the lessons of scurvy. When the Royal Navy later switched to lemons, sailors started to suffer from it again. Ultradamno, that picture is amazing.
	♥ 6:26pm dale: this reminds me of the green room with dorian. enjoyed that show.
	♥ 6:26pm AE Steve: I think it's the liver or some other similar organs that has vitamin c (when you don't have access to fresh fruits and veg)
	♥ 6:27pm Megaroni: Will look in my atlas, thanks Techtonic !
	♥ 6:27pm Mark Hurst: @AE there's a fair amount of description of scurvy's effects in this book... it's... yikes
	6:27pm carrots: ok, it works. thanks ! Great interview !
	6:27pm Davefrom Brooklyn: Wow, what a story. Thanks Mark for another intriguing hour
	6:27pm yippie: no i in arktos
	♥ 6:27pm Mark Hurst: @AE there's a scene that involves a liver, too
	♥ 6:27pm melinda: poor scurvied sailors forced to feel the burn
	♥ 6:28pm Handy Haversack: @AE Steve, yeah. Also just read Butcher's Crossing (amazing), and you eat the liver of the buffalo to prevent "buffalo sickness" when you're on a months-long buffalo hunt. Fun, right?
	6:28pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: My understanding is most animals synthesize their own endogenous Vit. C from other foods. But we Hairless Apes were fruit pickers...
	♥ 6:28pm Webhamster Henry: If you like this kind of exploration - check out Ernest Shackleton's Endurance Antarctic trip.
	♥ 6:29pm DjLorraine: I think sour kraut was also used in place of lime/citrus. Anyone else hear that?
	♥ 6:29pm Constance De Witt: They just should have brought a lactating lady to feed everyone on those boats.
	♥ 6:29pm dale: this sounds like a great netflix series. i like this kind of stuff.
	♥ 6:29pm ultradamno: If there are silent raves in The Quiet Place 2 someone will show up with bluetooth speakers screaming about freedom.
	♥ 6:29pm Bas NL: The Dutch Republic was powerful in the Golden Age!
	♥ 6:30pm -Ken: Thank you Listener Cris for that great books page!
	♥ 6:30pm Webhamster Henry: @Bas from NL: Please invade so we can surrender!
	♥ 6:30pm ifny: Hi all, loving the Arctic content. Thank you.
	♥ 6:31pm Mark Hurst: @ifny thanks, glad you're enjoying it
	♥ 6:31pm DjLorraine: vitamin C is needed to make collegen
	♥ 6:31pm Ken From Hyde Park: Circling back to Elon Musk again, with his plans for a Mars colony, I wonder what tragedies Techtonic listeners might discuss someday.
	♥ 6:32pm HyperDose: Imagine having a few and getting on a dogsled at night. I want to live that.
	♥ 6:32pm Bas NL: @WH He, he.. we swapped New Amsterdam for Surinam and change at the time..
	♥ 6:32pm AE Steve: THE RUINS OF HIS CABIN whhhhaaa how - almost 500 years old
	♥ 6:33pm Handy Haversack: Jens Munk went to the Netherlands to recruit whalers to come on his expeditions to the (now) Barents Sea. Bas, willing to hail you as an overlord whenever you give the word!
	♥ 6:33pm Mark Hurst: @Bas is William Barents still remembered as a national hero there in the Netherlands?
	♥ 6:35pm ifny: To read about a contemporary land defence issue in the Arctic, there is a group of Inuit hunters protecting their territory from a mine expansion with an airstrip blockade. The blockade has ceased for now: www.aptnnews.ca... The Baffinland mine threatens caribou amongst other species; even mine employees have written a letter supporting the hunters: www.cbc.ca...
	6:36pm yippie: a 2 year whaling journey to the south pacific would actually be a great way to spend covid
	♥ 6:36pm Bas NL: Yes, Willem Barentsz is still a celebrated hero. Near to me is a Willem Barentszstraat (street). Bartentsz is in full Barentszoon BTW. Son of Barents; like with the scandinavian -son.
	♥ 6:37pm Mark Hurst: @Bas interesting! thanks!
	♥ 6:37pm AE Steve: legends of failure - Scott's is a destructive legacy, lined up with WWI and British myth
	♥ 6:38pm ultradamno: You walrus hurt the ones with tusks...
	6:38pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: ' When you realize a forest only has value under Capitalism when it is cut down '...
	♥ 6:38pm Mark Hurst: wait... Scott failed?
	♥ 6:39pm Mark Hurst: (kidding)
	♥ 6:39pm Handy Haversack: Thanks for that, ifny! Lots of echoes in the stories of Barents and Munk. Ragged edges as oppression is switching horses from feudalism to mercantilism and capitalist exploitation. The later generations -- Scott, Amundsen, Perry -- much more firmly in empire and capital. But Munk was, later, probably, actually physically killed by the king he kept trying to serve by enduring unimaginable hardship and loss and sacrifice. tl;dr: Crazytown. Bananapants.
	♥ 6:39pm Ken From Hyde Park: There are videos of Russian arctic tourist voyages online, the icebreaker Kapitan Khlebnikov.
	♥ 6:40pm DjLorraine: Sauerkraut
	♥ 6:41pm AE Steve: Kookoo coconuts
	♥ 6:41pm Webhamster Henry: Well that's another one for the book checklist!
	6:41pm Andrea Pitzer: Sorry I scared you, Mark!
	♥ 6:42pm ifny: No, people have not learned enough from the legacy of colonialism, slavery, genocide, land expropriation etc. in the Americas or elsewhere. The Arctic is the centre of life and love for many Indigenous peoples, not "the edge of the world." A first step can be learning whose ancestral territory you are on today, and trying to reconnect with their stories and their struggles. native-land.ca
	♥ 6:42pm Handy Haversack: Great interview, @Andrea Pitzer! Thanks so much. Did you come across Jens Munk's story in your research?
	6:42pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: A late remote frontier of the 'New World'. & we make it all a Climate Wasteland to was with ...Also - our contempo Land of Cyber where we are Living - for which we have Feudalsim & no Bill of Rights...
	♥ 6:42pm melinda: I found the Barents Sea on my light-up globe
	♥ 6:43pm ifny: We all have a role to play in decolonization, and decolonization is one path to stopping climate change and refashioning our relationships with each other, nonhuman animals, and our fine blue green pea in space :)
	6:43pm The Butterman: If only we could terra form earth to make it habitable for a race of big brained biped mammals.
	♥ 6:43pm AE Steve: @ifny agree - it is interesting to learn of adaptations of Indigenous people to live at these latitudes. Lots to learn there
	6:43pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Shakespeare & the Renaissance including Empire & Exploration / Conquest. In his writing - the World in transition - Myth & Science not least of them...
	♥ 6:44pm Bas NL: @melinda Named after him.
	♥ 6:44pm dale: now i need to hear renbourn's lord franklin.
	6:44pm Dee cee: What is it with the white, male Europeans...so harmful, and greedy....shameful....
	♥ 6:45pm ifny: @AE Steve yass agreed. There are good initiatives hearkening from their climate expertise and knowledge e.g. unu.edu...
	6:45pm Davefrom Brooklyn: True sailing is dead. Jim Morrison.
	6:46pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Decolonization. Christianist conception of Dominian: Jehovah gave Nature to Man. 'Material' from Mater - Mother.
	6:46pm Andrea Pitzer: Yes, @Handy Haversack, I did come across Munk's story--there are so many astounding accounts.
	♥ 6:46pm AE Steve: @ifny great link
	♥ 6:47pm dale: isn't iceland the green place and greenland the icy place due to a mapmaker's gaff?
	6:47pm J&E in Ithaca NY: Crazy to think that much of whaling was done to fuel lamps with oil- to read at night and to accelerate the development of additional learning and tech
	♥ 6:48pm ultradamno: It's (greenland/iceland) popularly touted as deliberate misinformation, which is probably wrong.
	♥ 6:48pm Handy Haversack: One thing that blows me away about Munk is that after being icebound for 8-9 months in the Hudson Bay, he and his last two surviving crew members (out of two ships!) manage to sail one of those ships all the way back to Norway! Where he's thrown in jail!
	♥ 6:48pm ifny: Mining lithium for EV batteries is harmful, but also cryptomining is reliant on hydro energy, which is presented as green but is hugely climate and species disrupting.
	♥ 6:49pm ifny: And that's best-case scenario. Lots of cryptomining is coal fired.
	♥ 6:50pm dale: someone running for nyc comptroller was on curtis sliwa's show on wabc today. he was saying that he would invest the pension plans in cryptocurrency instead of relying on cash. all i could think of was the pied piper of hamlin.
	6:50pm annette: my dad once told me sailors during ww2 ate the skin if oranges to prevent scurvy. i get my vit c from tomatoes, but i still like the rind of navel oranges
	6:50pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Dee cee : Found this episode of On Being very insightful : onbeing.org... AfricanAmerican physical therapist discusses the somatic roots of racial stances - inherited over centuries. Africans experienced Slavery & still carry it - but Europeans experienced Feudalism & brutal exploitation that drove them to this 'New World' desperate for Individual power...
	♥ 6:51pm Bas NL: Wikipedia has a great page on Barentsz: en.wikipedia.org...
	6:52pm castor: Great interview! It makes me think of some report I heard out of Russia a couple years ago in which the Kremlin admitted it was optimistic about climate change because they were looking to benefit from an opened up arctic sea, and newly defrosted farmland in Siberia. There's actually a whole battle going on now over what country controls the arctic shipping routes based on the continental shelves, which is why when Trump said he wanted to buy Greenland I immediately understood why!
	♥ 6:52pm Rick from SC: I am the only one still spinning a globe?
	6:52pm ?: I highly recommend the series "Fall of Civilizations" on youtube
	♥ 6:53pm ifny: @Revolution Rabbit & Dee cee: Worth pointing out that England practiced colonisation, forced assimilation, and land-enclosure on the Welsh, Irish first etc.
	♥ 6:54pm AE Steve: Getting the book - great interview! And a++ polar bear images in playlist, Mark. I appreciate how the book and you link themes over the centuries through to now. Too often polar exploration books focus on one person's (or group's) struggles and how they overcame "nature" (or their own stupidity/pride).
	♥ 6:55pm ifny: Good 2019 run-down from a US perspective: 'The Political Geography and Environmental Impacts of Cryptocurrency Mining' jsis.washington.edu...
	♥ 6:55pm AE Steve: <<cough, cough>> Scott
	♥ 6:56pm Bas NL: www.cnbc.com...
	♥ 6:56pm HyperDose: Bravo Andrea. Riveting interview! Thank you Mark, Ken(s), and other studio ghouls who may be lingering behind the scenes. ❤️
	♥ 6:56pm Webhamster Henry: Some of those bitcoin mines are located in colder climes so their chips can get a boost in cooling. Also: near underused electric resources.
	6:56pm J a s o n: Absolutely correct. Bitcoin is a hustle for fools and overnight millionaires. A new economy does not = “our new economy”. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
	♥ 6:57pm Ken From Hyde Park: Bitcoin is the new tulip, you're saying?
	6:57pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Crypto decentralizing the Banks just like Interwebz decentralized everything else : Not.
	6:58pm Chuck Halbach: Mark your comments are on the Bitcoin (I mean money)...
	6:58pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Tulip Bubble !
	♥ 6:58pm melinda: @Rabbit right
	♥ 6:58pm ifny: Sending you all love and fan cooling! Thank you for another wonderful show @Mark. Please spread the word about the Baffinland resisistors -- it helps keep the community safe.
	♥ 6:58pm Handy Haversack: Thanks again, @Andrea Pitzer. Book's going on the reading list right now! "There are some people who are not internet billionaires" Mark Hurst says as he covers his head with a shroud so god can't see him eating an entire whole baked baby seal stuffed with ortolans and iPhones! Tulips. Exactly. Thanks, Mark! Another great show. Really, really enjoyed and appreciated. Stay tonicy, Tech Friends.
	♥ 6:58pm coelacanth∅: Thanks Mark and Andrea
	♥ 6:58pm Bas NL: Thanks Mark & Andrea!
	6:59pm yippie: there are 1000s of cryptos mostly junk but some nice ones
	♥ 6:59pm Webhamster Henry: Hey my $16 worth of Ethers is worth $57.59 now! $$$
	6:59pm Bea: Walrus mosh pit! Yes!
	♥ 6:59pm Webhamster Henry: Even Dogecoin is trending up!
	♥ 7:00pm HyperDose: This rips \m/
	♥ 7:00pm dale: love the concept of hearing music (as we know it) for the first time.
	♥ 7:00pm Handy Haversack: WFMU: the radio station most likely to be popular among walruses.
	♥ 7:00pm ifny: That song is 'my sweet and tender beast' :D
	♥ 7:00pm Webhamster Henry: They should have played a little Olga Podluzhnaya -- Or Vocal Fry!
	♥ 7:01pm Ken From Hyde Park: Rising sea levels are robbing the walruses of their traditional beachfront property. Thanks for today's show, Mark & Andrea!
	♥ 7:01pm Mark Hurst: Thanks, everyone!
	♥ 7:02pm WR: capitalism at any cost ? calculating actual cost of capitalist "success" stories.
	♥ 7:03pm WR: capitalist corporate entities succeeding at having others bear the cost.

Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from February 15, 2021

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