Options Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from January 27, 2020 Options

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Conversations with creators and thinkers who are charting the way forward in a tech-saturated society. Tech, community, video games, and whatever else is next.

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Upcoming events:

Mon. Mar 2nd, 6pm - 7pm: Mark H. with Co-Host Mary Wing

Options January 27, 2020: Melanie Mitchell, author, "Artificial Intelligence: A Guide for Thinking Humans"

Listen to this show: MP3 - 128K |  Pop‑up player! | Add or read comments



Tonight: Prof. Melanie Mitchell, author, "Artificial Intelligence: A Guide for Thinking Humans"

Artificial Intelligence: A Guide for Thinking Humans

@MelMitchell1 - Melanie Mitchell on Twitter

Items for today:

• Impeachment as a symptom.

• The attraction of covering Coronavirus (vs....)

Find a summer camp for your child, via Techtonic listener Jeremy

- - -

Check out techtonic.fm for recent Techtonic interviews and Little Slice of Tech Pie segments.

PODCAST: Subscribe to the Techtonic podcast

Artist Track Album Label Comments Images Approx. start time
        Melanie Mitchell talks about her new book "Artificial Intelligence: A Guide for Thinking Humans."    0:00:00 (MP3 | Pop‑up)
Tomaš Dvořák  Game Boy Tune   Options Machinarium Soundtrack  No label   
Options
 
  Mark's intro        
Options
 
  Interview with Melanie Mitchell        
Options
0:11:40 (MP3 | Pop‑up)
  Your comments        
Options
0:39:00 (MP3 | Pop‑up)
Pink Tiles  The Internet   Options #1 Fan  Pink Tiles   
Options
0:54:08 (MP3 | Pop‑up)

Listener comments!

Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:01pm ultradamno:

Hello Mark! Techal-9000s!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:01pm Phillippe Bastille:

All of my connected devices and I say Hi Mark
  6:01pm melinda:

Hi gang
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:01pm listener james from westwood:

Evening, Mark and all!
  6:02pm sufferwords:

No more robots!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:02pm Handy Haversack:

Bring on the tonic time! Hi, all! I love Mondays.
Avatar 6:02pm geezerette:

Hello, Mark and all who enter.,
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:03pm brainiac:

Please provide your IP address in the space below...
Avatar 6:03pm herb.nyc:

hi all, i am now a Tech-Bot-ic. i mean, i am not a Tech-Bot-ic.
  6:03pm Meesalikeu:

gameboy tune yaassss i dig
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:04pm chresti:

Hi Mark and everybody!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:04pm Webhamster Henry:

Hi Mark & Friends!
  6:04pm Dave Miss:

Thinking sub human here.
  6:05pm David in London:

Greetings Techniks.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:05pm Ken From Hyde Park:

Speak clearly into the surveillance microphone.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:06pm Webhamster Henry:

I and my pal Transformer will be commenting here.
-- -
Hey omg tell us about your journal/viewing this morning! A friend of mine got a box of mangled lipsticks in the mail, and so we knew we had to have at least one, but I wanted to wait until I had enough. So when we had the second batch of holos, and a lip piece, I knew this was the one! I honestly expected a box of bare lips (which I have some in my collection and love), but man am I happy we got the actual eye and lip balm! It's absolutely addicting and has a good vanilla scent to it!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:06pm ultradamno:

By the way, Fox's The Weekly had a good show this week questioning an older technology, breathalyzers.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:06pm Webhamster Henry:

Oh, maybe not.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:06pm Webhamster Henry:

talktotransformer.com
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:09pm ultradamno:

I wonder how many people saw that newsstand and thought "I need to check in on infowars, thanks kiosk!"
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:11pm Webhamster Henry:

CHoose News Wisely, trust .. Infowars, et al.
Avatar 6:11pm geezerette:

Ouija Boards are good.

Republican version is endless repetition of the name Burisma.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:11pm Bas NL:

Mark! Human Intelligenciae!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:12pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

Populist Revolution worldwide
- absolutely Tech correlate.
Tech as a Major Power - profitting from discord
- another matter...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:12pm ultradamno:

I understand interest in the news of the virus in China itself has been knocked down by the death of the sportsball man.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:12pm brainiac:

Burisma is the new Benghazi
  6:13pm David in London:

The London Metropolitan police have just announced the deployment of facial recognition cameras in the city centre. Lots of Londoners currently saying ‘Oh, we must have missed the debate about this...’
Avatar 6:15pm geezerette:

Brainiac, heh!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:16pm ultradamno:

I'm anticipating the rise of artificial ignorance. Suri starts responding to touchy questions with I don't know.
  6:17pm seth from muddy creek:

The Snowden interview by Joe Rogan is pretty great.
Avatar 6:17pm Fredericks:

Mark, you may want to consider the fact that during the impeachment hearings, if you watched live, Republicans appeared pretty wacky. However, in our chopped-up, snippet-driven, context-free information system, their presentations make for persuasive (for some) soundbites.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:19pm ultradamno:

Enough to overcome "lawyer law" though?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:19pm ultradamno:

lawyer lawsuits, that is.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:20pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

How does the water of the brain
become the wine of consciousness?
en.m.wikipedia.org...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:21pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

Difference between Intelligence & Consciousness
...but later for that...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:23pm Webhamster Henry:

One of the newer efforts in AI is to get the AI to explain why it made decisions - which is normally very, very obscure!
Avatar 6:24pm geezerette:

Revrab, well put.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:24pm Webhamster Henry:

There's an interesting self-driving car thing which is that different cultures have different driving styles.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:26pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

Parallel Processing...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:26pm Webhamster Henry:

I wouldn't worry too much about the problem of deep learning picking up some insignificant detail and making a wrong classification. The AIs we have now are like amoebas in brain capacity and processing power compared with what's coming up with the new sets of AI-specified chips.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:27pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

Boston Driver AI...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:28pm Webhamster Henry:

@RR63 cuing the Dodge Vegematic song from The Modern Lovers.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:28pm Webhamster Henry:

The anecdote I heard was about Israeli drivers actually!
  6:29pm John from Florham park:

Hello fellow technoids
  6:30pm castor:

the late great Hubert Dreyfus wrote a a book about this called What Computers Can't Do, based on Heidegger's philosophy. He wrote it decades ago to critique the MIT AI dept while he was teaching philosophy there and got a huge backlash, but he was right!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:30pm Webhamster Henry:

I point out that when AI is turned on optimizing its own processes, it's going to be the singularity right away.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:30pm Mark Hurst:

Hi all, thanks for showing up tonight! Good discussion!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:32pm Webhamster Henry:

I get a newsletter every day on the "state of the art" of AI research.Not that this is going to get me a job or anything.
  6:32pm Sam:

We understand NOTHING about consciousness! We know, say, that a drug releases endorphins. But why does that feel good? We have no idea. And how do you know which thins are conscious and which aren’t? Animals? Yes, probably, but all of them? Insects? We have no clue.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:33pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

If the machines can teach themselves
- then I fear we've engineered our own defeat.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:34pm Webhamster Henry:

Generated Adversarial Networks have a flaw - kind of like Ada Lovelaces' remark about machines only knowing what we can tell them to do - in that they are generated from being trained on a finite corpus, huge that it might be. And it may have biases in it that people don't even recognize yet.
  6:34pm seth from muddy creek:

Sounds like we’re still living in War Games movie
  6:37pm Sam:

Do they let the AI look at porn sites? Definitely more females than males there.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:37pm Webhamster Henry:

The Atari game playing Machine Learning demo can learn the rules from playing the games without knowing the games' rules at all. And so if you change the cgame (and you have enough capacity to learn), it will be able to recognize that there's another set of rules in play if you feed it controls for another game.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:38pm ultradamno:

@sam, that really depends on what sites you're looking at. Many have no women at all.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:38pm Webhamster Henry:

@Sam yes, there is a porn corpus for training image recognition. Detecting porn is a big business. Deepfaking and generating porn in a GAN is probably another big potential profit center.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:38pm Folsom:

@Webhamster Henry - what is the newsletter you get?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:38pm Mark Hurst:

Webham: did you hear the 2nd round of the Atari game? They changed the position of the paddle by a few pixels and the "self-taught" AI algorithm was unable to play. These things are so brittle, they really (imho) can't be said to actually learn much, let alone teach themselves.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:39pm brainiac:

Don't forget the singularity can only be defeated by asserting, "logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell bad" before it launches all the missiles.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:39pm Aitch:

@castor, my daughter bought me that book for christmas?
  6:39pm Dave from Brooklyn:

Great show,thanks Mark
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:40pm Mark Hurst:

Thx, Dave! And brainiac, will try to keep that in mind!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:40pm Webhamster Henry:

Even in the last 18 months things or so have immensely changed. Don't let individual flaws form a training set make you think those flaws won't be detected, becasue detecting flaws is exactly how these algorithms learn.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:41pm Mark Hurst:

According to my reading the structural flaws & impossibilities are still there, even in 2020. I'm going to get more into the underlying flaws in an upcoming episode....
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:44pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

No racial archetypal experience - no unconscious - no matrix for meaning?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:45pm Webhamster Henry:

As it gets more pervasive and powerful , and is it learns to design itself, those flaws will still be there, but be swamped by the superhuman access to raw data and processing power.

Think of it like this: perpetual motion is impossible, but a motor that runs for a million years is not impossible.
  6:47pm Listener Robert:

Excellent show tonight. But can anyone here explain the artwork?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:47pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

Always waiting for the next level of human neurological & electronic interface...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:47pm Webhamster Henry:

Translate in and out of French was done by Mark Twain in the 19th century with "The Celebrated Jumping Frog"
genius.com...
  6:48pm castor:

@ Aitch Dreyfus's writings and online lectures are amazing! My thoughts on these issues are very inspired by the existentialists.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:48pm brainiac:

I get "why is he so distorted?" a lot.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:49pm Webhamster Henry:

@Folsom I get one from MIT and some more technical ones.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:49pm chresti:

Why are they so distorted? haha
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:51pm ultradamno:

A Swedish novel took it's title from a Smiths lyric Let The Right One, translated as Låt den rätte komma in. The first edition of the novel was published as Let Me In (which oddly became the title of the English language remake of the Swedish movie)...and I don't think robots were even involved in that one.
  6:51pm WR:

I sent an email to colleagues in Germany that I had put through a Google translation system. One of them called me back, unable to stop laughing, saying that what I had written was all about bondage. All my German colleagues were sending to each other and cracking up. I'll never know why/how it was funny but there you go.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:52pm ultradamno:

(first ENGLISH edition of the novel, I meant to say)
Avatar 6:53pm tak:

i think they just didnt want to deal with a morrissey having a thing over the name
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:54pm Webhamster Henry:

I read a lot of lousy Google translations. The Not-evil-alright-yes-evil Google now has expanded it's ability to find context from a few hundred characters to entire books. There's no reason to think context acquisition would stop there.
  6:55pm Cabbage:

Let's all go back to Plato and Socrates and ask "What is knowledge?" "What is virtue?"
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:55pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

That's crazy. Eggplants obviously look like whales.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:55pm Webhamster Henry:

Computer based opacity is an ancient business tool. I used to say (in the 80s) a computer report doesn't have a signature.
  6:56pm Mitch M.:

Another informative broadcast
  6:56pm Sam:

The question is not why computers are bad at recognizing things, it’s why are we so good at it? The answer is millions of years of evolution with life or death implications of each decision. AI is not being forged in such fire.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:56pm Handy Haversack:

Cooking, which prevented commenting, but this was an excellent episode -- and some really crucial stuff. Thanks, Mark.
  6:57pm ignatatus666:

Blocked
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:57pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

Zackly Sam. How that relates to Meaning I find fascinating...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:57pm Webhamster Henry:

BTW The Songularity CD from Botnik is ready and I think released now.
  6:57pm ignatatus666:

See you on Billy jams show Mark
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:58pm melinda:

Good point Sam
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:58pm chresti:

It is not ready for prime time (AI), in the meantime AI toys are big money makers. Thanks Mark
Avatar 6:58pm coelacanth∅:

Thanks Mark! Thanks Melanie Mitchell!
  6:59pm ignatatus666:

Real quick
When using google translate take the translation and put it back through to see how it was translated
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:59pm Webhamster Henry:

My rather scary perspective comes from 50 years in the computer world of people underestimating technology.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:59pm Webhamster Henry:

Till next week!
Avatar 6:59pm tak:

it didnt help me with that cat macro
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:01pm Mark Hurst:

Hi all, thanks for the good discussion tonight. See you next week-
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:02pm Ken From Hyde Park:

In less than fifty years, we'll be the blobby people from the WALL-E movie - www.caranddriver.com...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:03pm Bas NL:

Thanks Mark!
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