Options Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from April 2, 2018 Options

Mark Hurst's avatar View Mark Hurst's profile Options

Conversations with creators and thinkers who are charting the way forward in a tech-saturated society. Tech, community, video games, and whatever else is next.

Mondays 6 - 7pm (EDT) | On WFMU | 91.1, 90.1, 91.9 FM & wfmu.org
WFMU LIVE Audio Streams (Get help):   Pop-up  |  128k AAC  |  128k MP3  |  32k MP3

iTunes Feed Also available as an MP3 podcast. More info at our Podcast Central page.

<-- Previous playlist | Back to Techtonic with Mark Hurst playlists | Next playlist -->

Upcoming events:

Mon. Sep 27th, 6pm - 7pm: Joe Turow, author of "The Voice Catchers" (More info...)

Options April 2, 2018: Dylan Curran on Google's surveillance - and, of course, Facebook

Listen to this show: Pop-up listen Pop‑up player!

This week: Irish web developer Dylan Curran on the surveillance that Google and Facebook carry out on you every day.

• Dylan Curran on Twitter: @iamdylancurran and on Patreon.

"Want to freak yourself out?" Here's Dylan Curran's thread in The Guardian: "I’m going to show just how much of your information the likes of Facebook and Google store about you without you even realising it."

Dan Barker points out the surveillance in The Guardian article that published Dylan Curran's Twitter thread. "Four sets of Facebook tracking, nine sets of Google tracking, and two Google ads, using all that data." Good point - Google surveillance really is everywhere!

What's the matter with one or two companies running everything? Well, just to take one example... this is what happens when one company owns dozens of local news stations: "This is extremely dangerous to our democracy." (Here's the New York Times piece.)

...in other tech news:

CNBC: Under Armour says data breach affected about 150 million MyFitnessPal accounts

Hey, Alexa, What Can You Hear? And What Will You Do With It?, on Google and Amazon digital home devices. "When you read parts of the applications, it’s really clear that this is spyware and a surveillance system meant to serve you up to advertisers."

• ...which reminds me of the Amazon Echo devices that were laughing at owners recently...

• ...and for a future show, How Dark Patterns Trick You Online. See also this list of dark patterns.

...oh, and yes, Facebook:

Facebook increases lobbying presence on Capitol Hill before Zuckerberg testimony: The Guardian: "The company has listed 12 policy-related job openings based in Washington DC as it faces increased scrutiny over its privacy policies after it was reported that Cambridge Analytica had obtained data from up to 50 million Facebook users."

Softball questions for Zuck in a Vox interview: CJR's Mathew Ingram writes: "Fascinating -- Mark Zuckerberg says for the first 10 years of its life, Facebook basically didn't think about the negative ways a giant social network could be used." Also, strangely no mention of Matt Yglesias, who suggested in this Vox piece that Zuck shut down Facebook.

Mark Zuckerberg and the Apology Algorithm: Zuck has been apologizing for Facebook's misbehavior since 2007, promising again and again to do better. 11 years, repeating the same mea culpas. Amazing to see them collected in one place.

After the Facebook scandal it’s time to base the digital economy on public v private ownership of data: in The Guardian, Evgeny Morozov arguing for "social rights to data."

Is Facebook suppressing anti-Facebook stories? BuzzFeed's Ryan Mac points out that only 2% of traffic to a recent anti-Facebook story on BuzzFeed came from Facebook. Vox's Matt Yglesias writes "I experienced this, too."

Anthony De Rosa: "Facebook says it's time to make our privacy tools easier to find, in a post that doesn't actually link to the privacy tools." Shocking!

- - -

Subscribe to the Techtonic podcast

Artist Track Images Approx. start time
  Dylan Curran describes how Google and Facebook conduct surveillance on you every day, often without users' consent or knowledge.
Tomaš Dvořák  Game Boy Tune   Options    
  Mark's intro  
  Interview with Dylan Curran on Google's surveillance  
0:04:49 (Pop‑up)
  Your calls and comments 201-209-9368  
0:21:53 (Pop‑up)

<-- Previous playlist | Back to Techtonic with Mark Hurst playlists | Next playlist -->

RSS feeds for Techtonic with Mark Hurst: RSSPlaylists feed | RSSMP3 archives feed

| E-mail Mark Hurst | Other WFMU Playlists | All artists played by Techtonic with Mark Hurst |

Listen on the Internet | Contact Us | Music & Programs | WFMU Home Page | Support Us | FAQ

Live Audio Streams for WFMU: Pop-up | 128k AAC | 128k MP3 | 32k MP3    (More streams: [+])

Listener comments!

Avatar 6:02pm Bas NL:

Hi Mark!
Avatar 6:03pm Linda Lee:

Good evening Mark!
Avatar 6:03pm Linda Lee:

Hi, Bas!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:03pm listener james from westwood:

Evening, Mark and all!
  6:03pm Warren from Australia:

Hey Mark and everybody out there in Techtonic land.
Avatar 6:03pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

BBC Radio4 comedy: ..."Zuckerbird has changed his ethical staus to - 'it's complicated' "...
Avatar 6:04pm herb.nyc:

since some WFMU dj played the "who's on first" skit recently, I am now I Don't ... doh, I'm not I Don't Know.
Avatar 6:04pm Bas NL:

Hi Linda Lee!
Avatar 6:04pm geezerette:

Howdy, Mark and tonics!
This is one migration that's not forced.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:05pm Greg from ZONE 5:

Evening, Mark and all!
Avatar 6:06pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

*Zuckerberg...I always say 'Zuckerbird' after ThurstonMoore did...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:06pm listener james from westwood:

Oh, wow, THAT thread....
Avatar 6:07pm geezerette:

Hey, Bas! RevRab! Linda Lee! L James! Everybuddy!
Avatar 6:08pm herb.nyc:

oh plz don't tell me that Google is bad, for my nephew works for them. (pause). from Get Smart, I asked you not to tell me that.
Avatar 6:08pm Linda Lee:

hi geezerette!
Avatar 6:08pm Bas NL:

Hi geezerette! Hi all!
  6:09pm melinda:

Hi everyone
Avatar 6:10pm herb.nyc:

Dylan Curran is Irish? sounds like a jewish name to me.
Avatar 6:10pm geezerette:

Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:11pm Mark Hurst:

Hi, Bas! Linda! James, RevRabbit, Geezerette, Melinda, Warren, herb!
Avatar 6:13pm herb.nyc:

just looking at the Guardian article, maybe Google should go into the online-dating industry.
Avatar 6:14pm cosmic matrix:

Hi Melinda! Hi all!
Avatar 6:17pm johnforz:

i'm looking at my Google Drive right now, and there is a "Trash" folder right in the left rail below all "Starred" "My Drive", etc.

Are you saying beyond that folder, they are getting placed into an invisible Trash folder?
Avatar 6:18pm herb.nyc:

really? no Delete button on first version of Gmail???
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:19pm Mark Hurst:

@herb, it's true, intentionally no Delete button for Gmail's launch. also, even today in 2018, have you noticed that there's no way to sort your messages in Gmail? (sort by sender, by date, etc.)... just doesn't exist.

@john, yes, I believe that is what Dylan was suggesting
Avatar 6:20pm johnforz:

Avatar 6:20pm geezerette:

When you have no privacy you are not free.
We are nothing but marketable data. Horrifying.
  6:20pm jpeg:

What if you're using an alternative search engine like DuckDuckGo and alt email service like ProtonMail? I switched to both thanks to this show :)
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:20pm Mark Hurst:

You could ask him directly to confirm, just post on Twitter to @iamdylancurran
Avatar 6:21pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

I'm glad this a Podcast too - might help me pay attention & keep up...
Avatar 6:21pm Linda Lee:

@jpeg ~ good idea, really.
Avatar 6:22pm herb.nyc:

(ouch, i was disconnected to the show for 4minutes, here at Apple Store. would Dylan mind trashing Apple while he's here?)
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:22pm Mark Hurst:

@jpeg, glad to hear it.. DDG and ProtonMail are good alternatives. but just know that if you use an Android phone, your info is likely being surveilled (per Dylan's comments)

@herb, stay tuned, he does comment on Apple
Avatar 6:22pm geezerette:

No kidding,Dylan!
  6:23pm jpeg:

Thanks Mark. I have an iPhone, but that doesn't seem like much consolation. Apple is seemingly just as evil as the rest
Avatar 6:24pm geezerette:

Back to paper letter writing.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:24pm Mark Hurst:

@jpeg beyond good/evil questions, there is an objective difference between Google/FB and Apple, in terms of their business models. Apple doesn't need surveillance for $ like Goog/FB do.
Avatar 6:24pm Linda Lee:

first off, let's stop functioning on an assumption of personal freedom in tech use. there's a start!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:25pm Fuzzy:

Root/flash your Android phone with a ROM that doesn't include Google apps/services -- LineageOS, for instancce.
  6:25pm jpeg:

I'm pretty happy I've never taken social media seriously enough to actually give any kind of real info about me. It pays to be paranoid sometimes: FB thinking my native tongue is Esperanto since 2007
Avatar 6:26pm herb.nyc:

mark is right, Dylan should pursue this further. maybe more drinking sprees!
Avatar 6:28pm djsheilab:

Mark thank you so much for this brilliant interview! And for encouraging Dylan to take a more active role in helping tech companies / gov't/ the public to seriously address these issues.
Avatar 6:28pm Bas NL:

At least i'm proud our wfmu comments board entries are kept open and free to find for years to come!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:29pm Phil with the phone:

Call in at 201-209-9368
We won't track your data!
Avatar 6:29pm northguineahills:

Well considering Trump wants all visa applicants to share their last 5 years of social media history and phone records.....
Avatar 6:29pm Linda Lee:

free to find? for years to come? dear me. i need better jokes. :-D
Avatar 6:29pm Mary Wing:

My fear is that Dylan is now a target for the big corporations. It wouldn't surprise me if he mysteriously disappears before the year ends. :-/
Avatar 6:30pm geezerette:

Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:30pm Webhamster Henry:

Remember the kerfluffle about Apple's Wifi Tracking database? That was a side effect of an technology that uses WiFi hotspots to be more precise than GPS. That's all well and good, but it used to keep that file around instead of just streaming it to Apple (securely, I assume).
Avatar 6:31pm Bas NL:

Yup! Keep up your jokes level Linda! ;)
Avatar 6:32pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

Avatar 6:32pm Linda Lee:

just fyi: checking social media histories for visa applicants was first proposed under Obama. 'war on terror' & all that.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:34pm dale:

i would suggest that the guest would be wooed by those companies.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:34pm dale:

typed too slow.
Avatar 6:34pm herb.nyc:

(aside: like driverless cars and trucks (trucks!), and clerkless counters at markets, just because a business can save money then they will. hello unemployment.)
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:34pm Ken From Hyde Park:

But but but ... You can play Where Went Waldo? this week on Google Maps: www.google.com...
Avatar 6:35pm Number Six:

He'll end up in The Village.
Avatar 6:35pm Bas NL:

He, he.. I was just thinking of the Borg. We are Borg, we are rational.
  6:36pm mink:

holy shit, is that bed music mario paint...?
Avatar 6:36pm northguineahills:

@geezerette: Hopefully it won't go through, my wife's visa process has been a nightmare so far.
Avatar 6:36pm Number Six:

Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:37pm dale:

herb - i think the end game there is about making fewer mistakes and preventing theft. which would leave us all the time to pursue our love of painting and desire to learn flamenco guitar. but without an income how could we afford to make that happen?
Avatar 6:37pm Bas NL:

Nice one, @Number Six!
Avatar 6:38pm djsheilab:

I've just switched my search engine to DuckDuckGo thanks to today's show. It's very easy with Chrome.
  6:38pm Patty D:

Facebook Messenger app listens via microphone
Avatar 6:39pm geezerette:

NGH, Yow! Sorry to hear that. This administration is hideous.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:39pm Ken From Hyde Park:

Facebook might have a phone keyboard logger and be snitching information that way.
Avatar 6:39pm Linda Lee:

how about this: disassociate from your tech behavior. become someone other under surveillance than who you actually are. ways to do this need development.
  6:39pm mink:

Oh, I have a story. My friends keep having youtube respond to things they mention on the phone. So my friend told a friend on the phone about having a bad back.. suddenly her youtube is recommending videos about bad backs... similar thing happened to my brother when he was chatting about hynotism... I guess could be just a coincidence, but I wouldn't be so sure they aren't using microphones
Avatar 6:40pm Linda Lee:

@mink ~ yep. happens all the time. garden variety dystopian surveillance.
Avatar 6:41pm Number Six:

Here's a little something I found that everyone might find of interest :
  6:42pm mink:

Glad to hear this experience isn't just random. Of course, paranoid androids like me say "oh just use firefox browser" .. but.. no one in the real world has time for this..
Avatar 6:42pm herb.nyc:

will we see a NotFlix?
Avatar 6:42pm Jeff Moore:

Don't forget Amazon Prime. They're a pretty direct competitor with Netflix (no idea what their relative user base sizes are).
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:43pm ultradamno:

And if you're watching Netflix with Chromecast?
Avatar 6:44pm Bas NL:

If we all become each others facebook friend, will that flip a lid on the facebook database?
Avatar 6:45pm Linda Lee:

please, let's not hang 'war on terror' repression on Trump. the war on terror was instituted under GW Bush & give the green light on a bipartisan basis since then. this means: even if Drumpf & company is chased into permanent exile tomorrow morning, we're still subject to continual surveillance and repressive control. we will still have the problems with government that we have. his removal will *not* mean we can relax & be happy. please, don't forget this.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:46pm Fuzzy:

@mink: yep -- "root/flash your phone" means nothing to the average Android owner.
  6:46pm mink:

@Bas.. as far as I can tell, we sort of already *are* each others Facebook friends. If I know just one person that has my number in their phone, I'm already on the database. So what's the point of even trying to be free of it ? :(
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:47pm Fuzzy:

@Linda Lee: you are correct. The Dem/Repub setup is just like a "good cop/bad cop" routine.
Avatar 6:48pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

Avatar 6:48pm geezerette:

Back to the caves, who's with me?
Linda Lee, you sanity and calm are appreciated.
  6:48pm mink:

(I mean, I am on facebook already) I don't use the app, but I use Whatsapp and have friends that use apps.. so... I feel like I'm sort of "taken" and any measures I take to be careful now are kind of laughable
Avatar 6:48pm Linda Lee:

yes. it disturbs me that manufactured resistance concentrates almost entirely on Trump. it's not about Trump, gross as he may be.
Avatar 6:48pm Bas NL:

@mink I was thinking at the SciFi level where one gets a computer meltdown by confusing it.
Avatar 6:49pm northguineahills:

Trump is a feature of the system, not a bug.
  6:49pm mink:

I feel like Trump is just a personification of the times. The UK government is so slow of keeping up with tech.. they only got wifi in parliament a couple years ago.. our PM wanted to ban encryption not long ago.. arghh
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:50pm Fuzzy:

Trump is the logical outcome of our eroded democracy.
Avatar 6:50pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

War On Terror...please - U.S. CIA put the Shah of Iran in power in place of a democratically elected man wayyy back in the 1950s...
'The U.S. doesn't have allies - it has interests.' - Kissinger
Avatar 6:50pm geezerette:

Trump is merely the hood ornament on a driverless car.
  6:50pm JakeGould:

Folks, theer is another kind of privacy leak out there Mac user’s deal with: By default, Mac OS encourages you to use your full name for a login. No biggie. But then if you activate any system sharing services, guess how your Mac is IDed? Via that username which is your full name which is what Apple encourages uses to use.

FunFact™: You can use any username on your system. So just use a handle.

And to understand how this is a data leak, get this… I was walking around Park Slope a few years ago and found an Apple Bluetooth mouth. The user used her full real name for her system. By simply turning on her mouse, I knew she was the owner. Granted, that could have been gleaned by just reading door buzzers, but still… Do most people know that risk exists?
Avatar 6:51pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

Drumpf's a Symptom - but symptoms can kill.
Avatar 6:51pm northguineahills:

At work, and need to do laundry and get back to the office (forgot places close for Easter).
Avatar 6:51pm Linda Lee:

@ngh ~ hahah! i tend to think of him as a bug. but you're right. in any case we've never had a democracy here in the states. the mechanisms of our governance are just coming out of the closet now.
Avatar 6:52pm herb.nyc:

Zuckerberg will make another apology, similar to most recent one. but he'll say "well, I left out a comma". (I stole a Marx Brothers joke)
Avatar 6:52pm Linda Lee:

symptoms don't kill unless there's disease undermining physical integrity to that extent.
Avatar 6:53pm Number Six:

If you want to screw with fb data read the motherboard article I put a link to before.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:53pm Fuzzy:

"It's called 'The American Dream' because you have to be asleep to believe it."
-- The Immortal George Carlin
  6:53pm mink:

@Bas Ah, I see. I kind of think this would need everyone to use it to be helpful? Like.. I'm a drop in the ocean.. and they only need one or two of my "likes" to make a fairly decent guess at my values. Overall I think online 'surveillance' could be a great (and inevitable) tool to understand and respond to people.. but right now it is being hijacked in a non transparent way
Avatar 6:53pm Linda Lee:

@geezerette ~ i like that hood ornament analogy.
Avatar 6:54pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

...been listening to 'On the Media' (NPR) w/ my mouth open - impossible to keep up...just like to this...
Avatar 6:55pm geezerette:

Thnx, L.L.!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:55pm Webhamster Henry:

My fun thing is seeing the Bluetooth names of the devices formerly joined to my rental cars!
Avatar 6:55pm Mary Wing:

Yes, and my full name is listed in the upper right corner of the screen here on my work Mac. I never understood why Apple needs to put the user name ON THE SCREEN ALL THE TIME.
Avatar 6:56pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

Elections have consequences.
Avatar 6:56pm Linda Lee:

enclosed photos of lunch in letters! LOL
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:56pm ultradamno:

But USPS are slaves to Amazon, or something, I'm told...
Avatar 6:56pm herb.nyc:

by coincidence, I checked last wk- first class is 50cemts and postcard is 35cents
Avatar 6:57pm geezerette:

"On The Media" is a good. show.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:57pm Ken From Hyde Park:

@WH - Yeah, if you link your phone's Bluetooth to a rental car, for cripe sakes, delete the entry when you turn the car back in.
Avatar 6:57pm Linda Lee:

Elections do indeed have consequences & this is why we no longer have them. we have simulations ~ by the good graces of the DHS.
Avatar 6:57pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

@geez: It's been compelling lately.
Avatar 6:57pm Jeff Moore:

@Mary - it doesn't need to. Look in System Preferences -> Users & Groups -> Login Options (fast user switching).
Avatar 6:58pm geezerette:

Loss of Face Book.
  6:59pm Warren from Australia:

Check out micro dot blog.

Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:59pm Phil with the phone:

Thanks for tuning in!
See you in 7 days~
Avatar 6:59pm Linda Lee:

after the CPB was politicized under Bush 2 & public funding for 'public media' was generally replaced by corporate sponsorship i just can't listen to NPR & trust what i'm hearing. just check out their sponsorship. Exxon? Merck? Please.
  6:59pm mink:

I appreciated this show, and I love that this conversation is happening! But to a degree it feels like Pandora is out the box. I hope we can regulate online rules r.e. propaganda / advertising. All this data is out there and floating around already... I think it will serve as part of our future intrastructure
Avatar 6:59pm Bas NL:

Mozilla, Wikipedia are examples of user sponsored companies...
Avatar 7:00pm Bas NL:

Thank Mark!
Avatar 7:00pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

@LL: It has to be in context...like *everything*.
Avatar 7:00pm Linda Lee:

forgot Monsanto. that's a big one.
  7:00pm mink:

Great show thanks guys!
Avatar 7:00pm Mary Wing:

Oh, I know that, Jeff Moore, and I don't care for my work computer, but most folks don't know how to turn that off. I see laptops all over town with people's names up on the screen.
Avatar 7:00pm Linda Lee:

yep. true.
Avatar 7:01pm herb.nyc:

I repeat my old joke: "computers are just a fad"
Avatar 7:01pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

Rule 1: Follow da munny.
Avatar 7:01pm Jeff Moore:

@Mary W: Then they are dummies?
Avatar 7:01pm geezerette:

"Nother great show, Mark and company!
Avatar 7:02pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

...Quantum Computing - will end Encryption...cause that's good...comin' right up...
Avatar 7:02pm Mary Wing:

I withhold judgement,Jeff.
Avatar 7:02pm Jeff Moore:

You are a nicer person than I.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:02pm Ken From Hyde Park:

@Mary Wing - The same people whose emails have the "Sent from my Imac" signature?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:02pm melinda:

I like the idea of a new social media platform with a different business model.
Avatar 7:03pm Linda Lee:

build it & they will come. :-)
Avatar 7:03pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:03pm Mark Hurst:

Thanks, everyone, for writing in!
Avatar 7:03pm geezerette:

Melinda, YES!
Avatar 7:03pm Linda Lee:

Mark must be reading the comments! he's letting us chatter on.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:05pm Ken From Hyde Park:

If Kurt isn't using the phone, we should all just call in and we can have a party line chat for a while.
Avatar 7:05pm Linda Lee:

haha! can we do that?
  3:48am david from ks.:

,,, a distraction from the dire state of the biosphere which will soon have Our full attention,,,
(C) 2021 WFMU. Generated by KenzoDB, (C) 2000-2021 Ken Garson