Options World of Echo with Dave Mandl: Playlist from July 27, 2014 Options

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Options July 27, 2014: Dave Mandl welcomes musician, label-head, and experimental-music pioneer Al Margolis to FMU for their annual summer broadcast.

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Artist Track Album Approx. start time
Elemend Technology  Elemend Matrixd   Options 16Z  0:00:00 ()
 
Minoy & PBK  Endgame   Options Cloisters  0:27:16 ()
Johnny Switchblade  L'Amour Fou   Options The Detachable Prostitute  0:36:50 ()
 
Inside/Outside  Room 2/Room 3/Room 4/Room 5   Options Rooms  0:50:03 ()
 
Schlafengarten  And When U Sleep/I Don't Wanna Hear About It/You Feel/Turn Away   Options Spring Cleaning!!  1:14:27 ()
 
Go Potty  This Right After This   Options This Right After This  1:29:57 ()
 
Ron Nagorcka  Atom Bomb   Options Atom Bomb Becomes Folk Art  1:56:52 ()
Triple Point  Sublimation   Options Phase/Transitions  2:11:05 ()
 
Eric Richards  Conch Music   Options The Bells Themselves  2:32:15 ()
Dave Seidel  Accretion   Options ~60 Hz  2:33:19 ()
 
Zanstones Zest  ?   Frilled Godwinkle  2:46:13 ()

Listener comments!

Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 9:01pm Dave Mandl:

Welcome, Ls and Gs. And please welcome my guest Al Margolis.
  Sun. 7/27/14 9:07pm Carmichael:

Heya Dave and Al. Look forward to much music and banter.
  Sun. 7/27/14 9:09pm Phillip.(Brooklyn):

And a good evening to you Mr Mandl
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 9:19pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

...if this 'Saucerful of Secrets'~Ligeti as merely a starting-off place track right @ the top is an indication - this will indeed be a rich experience !...
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 9:21pm Ken From Hyde Park:

Hi, Dave, special guest Al, and the multitudes. The lead track tonight was great. I like to hear what is to come.
  Sun. 7/27/14 9:27pm Phillip.(Brooklyn):

Huh??? What??? Cassettes coming back!
  Sun. 7/27/14 9:27pm P-90:

Good Evening Dave and Special Guest Al.
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 9:28pm Dave Mandl:

Hey there Carmichael, Phillip, RRN63, Ken, P-90!
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 9:29pm dk:

pretty much instantly in love with this minoy + pbk
  Sun. 7/27/14 9:30pm Rory:

Yeah, this is great.
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 9:30pm fleep:

Greetings, Dave. The last time Special Guest Al was here, the comment topic was tape decks, or the lack thereof. If the flimsiest storage medium ever conceived is back, are the decks back, too?
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 9:33pm Dave Mandl:

Greetings dk, Rory, fleep.
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 9:33pm Dave Mandl:

Al is joining the party now...
  Sun. 7/27/14 9:33pm al:

hi fleep....
that is an issue i am having - looking for tape decks myself..
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 9:35pm JakeGould:

So is this the disconcerting show?
  Sun. 7/27/14 9:35pm al:

and oh yeah cassettes are back - sort of...
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 9:35pm Dave Mandl:

It's even getting hard to find CD decks, so you can imagine.
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 9:36pm Ken From Hyde Park:

Nothing in my household that can play cassettes anymore. Anyone remember the TRS-80 computer that used cassettes as their storage medium?
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 9:38pm Dave Mandl:

@Ken: I do, though I was too young to get one.
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 9:38pm JakeGould:

Ken, I have one cassette deck… And it is an old Radio Shack TRS-80 external deck. Looks like a normal deck but has the computer hookup. Use it for audio. Also, pretty much all of the 8-bit computers from back then had cassette drives. My Atari 410… Wow, what memories!
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 9:39pm Peanut:

That was a popular computer.
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 9:39pm JakeGould:

Do have to fix the belt on it. But it is a great compact deck.
  Sun. 7/27/14 9:39pm al:

i do not remember that ...wow...
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 9:40pm Peanut:

we used to have a colecovision adam that had a few games on cassette.
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 9:40pm pacific standard simon:

What it is.
  Sun. 7/27/14 9:41pm Sem Chumbo:

My VIC-20, and sure, the Coleco Adam I had...wow, a long time ago:-)
  Sun. 7/27/14 9:41pm Phillip.(Brooklyn):

This sounds like the Tokyo phone company switchboard in the 1960's
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 9:42pm Dave Mandl:

Welcome Jake, Peanut, pss, Sem.
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 9:43pm JakeGould:

Dave, as far as CD players go is there a viable path in using computer CD/DVD/Bu-Ray drives as a replacement? I mean, yeah you have to hook up a computer but those drives seem common.
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 9:47pm fleep:

CD players on Winduhs? Glitchy. Too much background processing.
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 9:47pm pacific standard simon:

I have a cassette deck with a USB connector -- supposed to go into a computer for transferring old tapes to digital files, but it should work fine plugged into the TV.
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 9:51pm JakeGould:

Those cassette decks with USB basically have a sound card connected to the USB to convert the analog tape audio to digital.
  Sun. 7/27/14 9:51pm Phillip.(Brooklyn):

AL what kind of tape is being used? Normal bias. Chrome or metal high bias
  Sun. 7/27/14 9:53pm al:

hi phillip

well i was using in the past - and now that i am making tapes again (strange to say) - bulk loaded chrome...though i always remain skeptical that they are...masters were usually metal or chrome high bias
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 9:54pm Ken From Hyde Park:

This is you, Al? www.discogs.com...
  Sun. 7/27/14 9:55pm al:

thats' me...
  Sun. 7/27/14 10:00pm P-90:

Might be worth mentioning that regular cassettes were among the first data storage devices used for programmable industrial "robotic" tools. All of the motion control photography for the original "Star Wars" movie in 1976 was done using a modified aerospace "jig cutter" as a camera platform. The machine could perform the same camera movement as many times as necessary, by storing the information describing the motions in ANALOG form, as sound "files" on cassettes, before digital computers were good enough to do that kind of job reliably. Just sayin'.
  Sun. 7/27/14 10:00pm Carmichael:

I still have my Sony deck, perhaps waiting for moments like this. Plays metal tapes too, and has a timer switch.
  Sun. 7/27/14 10:02pm al:

definitely wise idea to hold on to working cassette decks..and cool about the special effects on cassettes..i had absolutely no idea...fantastic...thanks for the info
  Sun. 7/27/14 10:03pm Rory:

I got a Sony deck too. Found in my grandparents basement.
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 10:04pm Andrew Waterloo:

My only cassette player is a cheap boom box that I bought from the discount store.
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 10:05pm JakeGould:

Back in the pre-computer days a lot of seemingly “digital” work was really analog. Like a lot of the video green screen stuff in the 1970s & such.
  Sun. 7/27/14 10:06pm al:

that does make total sense..analog was what there was,,,
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 10:08pm Andrew Waterloo:

I just read an interview with a guy who was talking about how early field recorders would manually cut cross-fades.
  Sun. 7/27/14 10:10pm Carmichael:

Mine is a TKC ...?? TCK???
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 10:16pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

...I remember reading that for Star Wars - they went for very 'organic' non-electronic sound effects - even in 1977 terms; thwacking telephone pole support wires for blaster gun sounds, & so on...
...I often think that 'LoFi' has things in common w/ the exalted experimental Classics of the 1960s era; Sgt. Pepper was 4-track tape, after all...was observed by Satriani I think in a Guitar magazine how much more satisfying ElectricLadyland by Hendrix is than digital effects that are the same buttons pushed by everyone now: each effect on it was unique & 'handmade' - & DYI Culture shares this, seems to me...
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 10:18pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

*DIY fergawdsake...
  Sun. 7/27/14 10:20pm al:

interesting - john wiggins - another old cassette guy and who for a long time did much of the sound/music editing etc at HBO, used to feel that analog synths were just getting interesting when the industry introduced digital synthesizers - that took all the creativity out of selfpatching etc...and so people now making their own analog synths amd modules..diy culture tat way as well
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 10:21pm Ken From Hyde Park:

DYI = Do Yourself In? Yeah, that'd be bad.
  Sun. 7/27/14 10:22pm al:

indeed...that's be bad...but do it yourself is ok...
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 10:23pm JakeGould:

Analog synths are pretty amazing. For example Suzanne Ciani’s synth work really is amazing in my POV.
  Sun. 7/27/14 10:28pm al:

and all the new ones everyone is making is pretty amazing
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 10:29pm Andrew Waterloo:

Anyone else catch the Tape Hiss sessions on Tony Coulter's show?
  Sun. 7/27/14 10:31pm al:

i have not heard those..will have to check it out..tape hiss over computer speakers ought to be fun...
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 10:31pm Dave Mandl:

@Andrew: Sure. Tony's got a pretty amazing cassette collection.
  Sun. 7/27/14 10:32pm P-90:

@ al & everyone: That stuff about musical synths just getting "interesting" just before they went digital and lost that original mojo is gospel in the musical world. if you listen to records made in the early seventies, musicians were interested in using analog synths that SOUND like synths in their arrangements (think of McCartney's use of Moog parts in the opening of" Band on the Run", and for the solo in "Jet".) then synths became digital, and were used mostly to replicate the sounds of other, "traditional" instruments.
  Sun. 7/27/14 10:33pm al:

exactly!!!
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 10:36pm JakeGould:

Funny but I was just talking this afternoon about how great early video games worry and how I personally find the ultra-realism in them nowadays to be horrible. In the beginning the games were all abstract in a way so the visual narrative was simpler and more playful. Now you can load a game were you just look like a real soldier killing real people & that is great why? There’s magic in the early abstraction of a technology.
  Sun. 7/27/14 10:36pm al:

it was about the sound - as synths - not as pretending to be some fake version of a "real" instrument...
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 10:37pm Bayta:

I've no idea what you folks are talking about but I just want to say I love the music so far.
  Sun. 7/27/14 10:37pm Carmichael:

Tony Coulter's Tape Hiss shows are amazing. I have to research most of the artists, and they are NOT archived. So get 'em while you can.
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 10:37pm Dave Mandl:

@Bayta: That's fine! Thanks.
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 10:39pm steve:

Al, what's the meaning of the name "If, Bwana"?
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 10:40pm Andrew Waterloo:

@Carmichael, you can find some of the cassettes for purchase on Discogs and the playlists are available. but oh to be able to listen to those over and over again.
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 10:40pm Dave Mandl:

@steve: I know! "It's funny, but we are not amused."
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 10:42pm steve:

ha! consider me amused.
  Sun. 7/27/14 10:43pm al:

good =- and i like the demon cat...
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 11:03pm George of Troy:

Good evening, Dave. Nice to be listening in real time for a change, and to be hearing Mr. Margolis along with you. Also, please let this serve as a request for him to play a show in Hudson NY again sometime soon!
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 11:04pm Dave Mandl:

Hey George. Al's playing in Hudson on Oct. 4th or 5th.
  Sun. 7/27/14 11:05pm al:

with walter wright and dave seidel - as Three Beards Are Better Than One
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 11:06pm bobdoesthings:

good evening all.
  Sun. 7/27/14 11:06pm P-90:

Hi bobdoes
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 11:10pm bobdoesthings:

@p-90 - I am curious.. what is a p-90? I just googled it.. seems to be a gun? or possible guitar pickups?
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 11:10pm George of Troy:

Thanks for the information, guys! I'll mark the calendar.
  Sun. 7/27/14 11:12pm al:

sure thing george...thanks
  Sun. 7/27/14 11:14pm Carmichael:

Or a cassette tape, Bob. Maybe.
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 11:16pm bobdoesthings:

oh right that is a brand of cassette isn't it?... hmm.. Im not sure of anything at the moment. where am I?
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 11:19pm JakeGould:

C90 would be a cassette type. A 90 minute cassette with 45 minutes on each side. Not too sure what satantic ritual P-90 is connected to, but it sure must be unholy.
  Sun. 7/27/14 11:20pm coalhard:

Welcome to the twilight zone --folks here have encountered a green stamp loop
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 11:21pm JakeGould:

And I just discovered project C-90. www.c-90.org...
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 11:23pm steve:

that's gold Jake. as an adendum: www.flickr.com...
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 11:24pm JakeGould:

Inserts? INSERTS! J-cards my friend, J-CARDS!
  Sun. 7/27/14 11:27pm coalhard:

anybody here remember green stamps raise hand only!
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 11:29pm pacific standard simon:

Dedicated C-120 user, despite their tendency to malfunction.
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 11:29pm Ken From Hyde Park:

<raises hand>
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 11:30pm pacific standard simon:

Blue Chip Stamps
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 11:30pm JakeGould:

I grew up in Brooklyn so I remember seeing “King Korn Stamps” signs all over the place. But never used them. Dying city. Also, Pacific Standard Simon C-120’s screw up because the tape is so much thinner than the C-60 or C-90 stuff.
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 11:30pm fleep:

S&H GreenStamps have evolved, they are now virtual www.greenpoints.com
  Sun. 7/27/14 11:32pm al:

hand raised as well..might have been s & h as well...i'm an old queens boy myself...
  Sun. 7/27/14 11:33pm Carmichael:

My 1st guitar cost my parents 3 books of blue chip stamps. My brother promptly sat on the neck, destroying it. My next guitar was a Sears Silvertone, right out of the catalogue.
  Sun. 7/27/14 11:33pm P-90:

@pss: I always had good luck with C-120's back in the cassette era. Though I remember the C-90's were more the common "standard" for things like the mix tapes we'd make to keep in the car for listening on the road...
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 11:33pm pacific standard simon:

I recorded a lot of radio shows, so it made sense to record on 120s, and then edit and dub as necessary.
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 11:34pm steve:

strangely you can still buy endless loop cassettes. who on earth is buying these besides me, id sure like to know. www.deltamedia.com...
  Sun. 7/27/14 11:34pm coalhard:

Camden was my boyhood home till a hurricane wiped us out I think it was Hazel not sure
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 11:35pm JakeGould:

I think endless loop cassette systems are still used in some store systems. Like when you go to a street fair or carnival and you hear the endless loop of a barker hawking wares.
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 11:36pm Ken From Hyde Park:

At some grocery stores here, you amass gasoline discounts. Spend $100 on food and earn $.10 per gallon discount.
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 11:36pm JakeGould:

Pacific Standard Simon, for a while h-fi VHS decks were popular for recording audio. Just stick in a VHS tape in 8 hour mode. The audio was always great.
  Sun. 7/27/14 11:36pm P-90:

@ steve: I believe people still use them for self-hypnosis, stuff like that

@Carmichael: Was that one of the Silvertones that came with a case with a built-in amp and speaker?
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 11:36pm pacific standard simon:

Does FMU still have a cart machine? Doubt it, haven't heard anything except the bits on Music To Spazz By that might be done with loop carts.
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 11:38pm Dave Mandl:

@pss: No, I don't think we've had cart machines in the studio for a while. Too bad.
  Sun. 7/27/14 11:39pm P-90:

@pss: I was just about to mention cart decks, I knew they'd come into this sooner or later. There's a kind of "cart-deck museum" site on the web somewhere. Lemme see...
  Sun. 7/27/14 11:40pm P-90:

http://www.oldradio.com/archives/hardware/carts.htm
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 11:41pm pacific standard simon:

Those things were mainstays of Negativland and KPFA's Over The Edge in the '80s & '90s.
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 11:44pm pacific standard simon:

Awesome, p-90!
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 11:45pm Ken From Hyde Park:

A friend of mine has a show on WVKR in Poughkeepsie and I've seen their cart machine they use for PSAs. I forget what model it is.
  Sun. 7/27/14 11:47pm al:

great station vkr...
  Sun. 7/27/14 11:48pm P-90:

They were mainstays of every broadcast booth in the land! An integral part of the art of radio broadcasting. --I remember a friend in LA back in the eighties tried to get backers interested in developing and marketing the first "digital cart deck" which was to use little floppy discs in little plastic cartridges maybe 2 inch by 2 inch. Of course desktop computers wound up doing that job, simply storing "spots" as sounds on hard drive...
  Sun. 7/27/14 11:50pm P-90:

[storing spots as sound FILES on hard drive}
  Sun. 7/27/14 11:50pm Clay Pigeon:

I do my show most of the time using a Radio Shack micro-cassette recorder and a Technics dual-cassette deck with a turntable. I still know a guy who can fix them and cannibalize one to fix another. GREAT SHOW DAVE!
  Sun. 7/27/14 11:51pm coalhard:

Our machines are going to raise up one day an consider us obsolete
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 11:51pm pacific standard simon:

[steering spits as wound flies on herd drives]
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 11:52pm Dave Mandl:

@Clay: Thanks! Love those micro-cassettes.
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 11:52pm George of Troy:

Thanks for the wonderful show, gentlemen! Really enjoyed that Dave Seidel track.

Al- Old Queens boy here as well!
  Sun. 7/27/14 11:53pm al:

thanks much george..
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 11:54pm Ken From Hyde Park:

My favorite WVKR moment was many years ago. They have (to this day) a polka show on Monday evenings. At the time, the following show was called Vicious Metal. The last note of the polka closing song finished and they went instantly to the most face-melting and viscious-sounding metal song I'd ever heard. What a contrast!
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 11:55pm pacific standard simon:

My Technics dual-cassette deck died a hideous death -- jerking and twitching in auto-reverse death-throws.
  Sun. 7/27/14 11:56pm al:

we're outta here so thanks all
     Sun. 7/27/14 11:56pm 12539:

Thanks, Dave and Al.
  Sun. 7/27/14 11:57pm P-90:

Hail Clay Pigeon! Stanly Kubrick thought micro-cassettes looked so high-tech and "futuristic" in 1971 that in Clockwork Orange he showed protagonist Alex playing his beloved Beethoven's Ninth on a micro-cassette.
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 11:57pm pacific standard simon:

Good night and bless you all noise merchants.
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 11:58pm Dave Mandl:

Thanks, all. Have a great week!
Avatar Sun. 7/27/14 11:58pm pacific standard simon:

Those cart decks probably filled-in for many a computer in cheapo sci-fi movies.
  Sun. 7/27/14 11:59pm P-90:

THANKS Dave and Al!
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