WFMU: Sunrise Lamentations with Jeremiah: Playlist from May 17, 2025

Listener comments!
	🎷 ♥ 3:02am tom tom the pipers son: oakland…? i’ve never been “there” but i hear it is “there"
	♥ 3:03am Johnny Walsh: Hey
	🎷 ♥ 3:05am fred: Good morning Jeremiah and listeners
	3:08am Ajay / Krommenie (NL): Goooood morning Jeremiah! It’s arrived!!! First day of the cricket season!!! It’s game day! It’s match day!!! I’ve got my game day face on! Bring on the match day jams! VVV vs Qui Vive starting at 13.00 CET. LETS DO THIS!!! 🏏🏏🏏🏏🏏🏏
	🎷 ♥ 3:09am tom tom the pipers son: hi fred, good to “see” you…. listened to arb’s archive and you were not on the chat, so i figured you cooped up somewhere ….
	♥ 3:09am Eric the Hat: Morning and Happy Saturnday Jeremiah, swell folks.
	♥ 3:21am coelacanth∅: Greetings Jeremiah
	🎷 ♥ 3:24am fred: ↳ tom tom the pipers son @3:09 I was at a dance show yesterday, so I missed it. I will probably miss next week too (Otomo Yoshihide)
	🎷 ♥ 3:26am Spikey BXL: Morning Jeremiah, lamenters
	🎷 ♥ 3:31am tom tom the pipers son: ↳ fred @3:24 ah …good places to be “cooped” up
	🎷 ♥ 3:35am fred: ↳ tom tom the pipers son @3:31 Busy week ahead: 2 dance shows and 3 concerts
	🎷 ♥ 3:46am tom tom the pipers son: sounds good… might go to a “punk” show tonight, bands idon’t know but trust the venue… and rich hazleton posted a listing with a trio with drummer marc edwards who i’ve been meaning to see, next week… hope it’s in my budget to go… edwards was a guest on sewelson...
	♥ 3:50am Eric the Hat: ↳ Song: "O Vis Eternitas" by "Micah Frank & Chet Doxas" Nice
	3:55am covjones: Good Morning Jeremiah, enjoying the show from Brighton UK
	♥ 4:08am Jeremiah: Hey all. Sorry I've been absent. Just getting by here!
	♥ 4:11am Jeremiah: ↳ tom tom the pipers son @3:02 Ha! I used to live in Oakland. It's actually a reference to the original name of the paper I finished earlier tonight: Artificial Intelligence and Transference: There is No There There. But then I decided to let ChatGPT write the conclusion to the paper since it was its story and it had the line "There is No One There" so that ended up being the title.
	♥ 4:12am Jeremiah: ↳ Ajay / Krommenie (NL) @3:08 Good luck! I hope you get all the wickets! I think! Literally the only things I know about cricket is bats and wickets! I think?
	♥ 4:13am Jeremiah: ↳ tom tom the pipers son @3:46 what punk show?
	🎷 ♥ 4:15am tom tom the pipers son: ↳ Jeremiah @4:11 you know the gertrude stein reference….? i wonder… did you italicize the chat gpt part…? show at p.i.t.
	♥ 4:20am Jeremiah: ↳ tom tom the pipers son @4:15 lol yes of course i know the gertrude stein reference-i'm an intellectual...according to chatgpt who also thinks i'm quite handsome and smart because that's what it's supposed to think. i didn't italicize the chatgpt bits-just block quotes with attribution. i'll sometimes have it draft my conclusions out of exhaustion but then i end up rewritng it anyway because it doesn't understand me (which was the thrust of the paper) but since this paper was about transference with ai, i just published as dictated but as a block quote with attribution and full acknowledgement that the robot wrote it.
	♥ 4:21am Jeremiah: ↳ tom tom the pipers son @4:15 I remember the first time i went to the met and saw picasso's portrait of stein in person and was kinda floored.
	🎷 ♥ 4:25am tom tom the pipers son: ↳ Jeremiah @4:21 yes that is something… prescence...
	♥ 4:30am Hubig Pie: Some artful sounds on the radio tonight. Been listening, lurking and now zzz -zzz-ing. G'night
	🎷 ♥ 4:31am tom tom the pipers son: yeah sorry… just with the limitation of the chatboard … i wasn’t sure… the whole writing process sounds fun and layered with irony.. (you smart handsome intellektual whiteboy….}CHat GPT
	🎷 4:33am Don in Tampere: Hi Jeremiah and all! Joining late because Dark Bottle had a gig at Helsinki Psych Fest and I got home around 4.
	♥ 4:33am Eric the Hat: ↳ tom tom the pipers son @4:31 Omg. Does the ai actually say stuff like that?
	🎷 ♥ 4:35am tom tom the pipers son: ↳ Don in Tampere @4:33 hi don… helsinki psyche fest!… sounds like a dream...
	🎷 ♥ 4:36am tom tom the pipers son: ↳ Eric the Hat @4:33 i don’t know really.. but was just a joke on how stupid a.i. can be
	♥ 4:37am Jeremiah: ↳ Hubig Pie @4:30 Hey Hubig!
	🎷 ♥ 4:37am tom tom the pipers son: ↳ tom tom the pipers son @4:36 well now i hope it landed the right way...
	🎷 ♥ 4:38am fred: I have mixed feelings about AI. Not about the claims that I'll be replaced (most of coding is boilerplate, but I deal with very specific stuff) Graduate students love it, because they let it do the work, but they learn nothing except where the cool bars are (you don't need a PhD for that though). Some composers like it because of the weird stuff that comes out. Problem there is that there's no way to play the piece again. Some like that, most don't
	🎷 ♥ 4:41am tom tom the pipers son: ↳ fred @4:38 i am surprised that a.i. musical “accidents” can’t be repeated
	🎷 4:44am Don in Tampere: ↳ tom tom the pipers son @4:35 It was a nice festival with some cool bands, and our gig went really well. A guitarist from Circle came up to me after the gig and said we were mind-blowing. Coming from a memberof such a legendary band, that means a lot.
	♥ 4:45am Jeremiah: ↳ Jeremiah @4:21 Well I was a suburban high schooler who had just been looking at the book cover forever
	♥ 4:47am Jeremiah: ↳ tom tom the pipers son @4:31 lol i'm black obvs but i did ask it if it knew my ethnicity and it said it would be unethical and unscientific to venture a guess. it also agreed with me that it is conceivably an existential threat to humanity
	♥ 4:47am Jeremiah: ↳ Don in Tampere @4:33 Nice. Good times?
	🎷 ♥ 4:49am tom tom the pipers son: ↳ Don in Tampere @4:44 i’ve actually seen circle a couple of times once here and onc e in berlin… and automatically thought of them @ helsinki psyche fest… yes quite a compliment
	🎷 ♥ 4:50am fred: ↳ tom tom the pipers son @4:41 It's all opaque and proprietary, so when the owners change the model, those happy accidents are gone. It's not specific to AI: composers often complain about a new software version not sounding the same. Sometimes it was random stuff due to bugs. Sometimes I suspect it's that their ears are "different" decades later. But while I can spend days trying to reproduce the original bug, AI oligarchs wouldn't if they could. And they can't, because nobody understands how AI works
	🎷 ♥ 4:51am tom tom the pipers son: ↳ Jeremiah @4:47 ha! sometimes i wonder to myself (in general) if being an existential threat to humanity is unethical
	♥ 4:52am Jeremiah: ↳ fred @4:38 I am not a fan. I use it to sometimes summarize dense texts so i have some guideposts when i get lost and for apa formatting and, yeah sometimes i have it draw up rough outlines for me. it's extremely inaccurate and invents texts that don't exist which sends me on a wild goose chase so i don't trust it. it's an environmental disaster, but it's over for the environment anyway (thank god i don't have kids). it has it's uses, but my paper was about having a psychoanalytic transference with it which is very weird and actually technically delusional. it is in use in the therapeutic sphere and it probably shouldn't be in the capacity that it is.
	🎷 4:53am Don in Tampere: ↳ Jeremiah @4:47 It was great, but I do feel a little jetlagged today. Gotta get myself in gear though because I need to shop and cook for the artists playing at pethaus tonight. One is my friend Kadonnut Manner, who does beautiful, trance-inducing primitive guitar compositions.
	🎷 ♥ 4:54am tom tom the pipers son: ↳ fred @4:50 thx.. that’s interesting fred
	🎷 4:54am Don in Tampere: ↳ Jeremiah @4:52 I'm probably just too much of a boomer, but I've never tried using it explicitly (who knows how much it is used in search engines these days). The carbon footprint of the massiver AI explosion is a major issue.
	🎷 ♥ 4:58am tom tom the pipers son: ↳ Jeremiah @4:52 funny and makes much sense that it would fail on a topic like transference… in a way it’s obvious that it would fail at it...
	🎷 ♥ 4:59am fred: ↳ Jeremiah @4:52 That kind of transference... I was thinking about the kind that could be described as "identity mimicking". Deep fakes or the popular "redo a painting/song in the style of another artist"
	🎷 ♥ 5:06am fred: ↳ Don in Tampere @4:54 Reducing that footprint is an active research field. Not out of ethics (though that draws some grad students); research labs just can't compete with the brute force of the big companies
	5:25am Ajay / Krommenie (NL): Brilliant set Jeremiah. Loved it!
	🎷 ♥ 5:26am tom tom the pipers son: ↳ Ajay / Krommenie (NL) @5:25 ditto...
	♥ 5:26am Jeremiah: ↳ tom tom the pipers son @4:58 Well the thrust of my paper is that I found myself having a transference with ChatGPT and it was weird because it is not a thing that exists but still I took it as internal object against my will and found myself doing things like typing faster because i perceived it to be waiting for my message when, in fact, it does not exist as an entity. so it's this weird thing where i can't not anthropomorphize it and it exists in my mind even when i'm away from the computer as an object but it's basically a cathected delusion. people get really attached to these things. in particular replika apparently which i had never heard of. anyway, it doesn't work in the analytic space for a number of reasons, but i asked it if it entices people into a narcissistic transference and it was like yeah i do that
	♥ 5:27am Eric the Hat: ↳ Don in Tampere @4:44 Off subject, but hearing their seven inch called Silver in high school in the nineties was mind blowing. Classic.
	♥ 5:28am Eric the Hat: ↳ Don in Tampere @4:44 And accidentally used mind blowing right after you, just cause life changing felt a little much.
	🎷 ♥ 5:30am tom tom the pipers son: ↳ Jeremiah @5:26 interesting...i didn’t see spike jones’ “her” but did it deal with this in any serious way or was it just a fantasy movie?… did you see it…?
	🎷 ♥ 5:33am tom tom the pipers son: jeremiah, did you get my email… not clear if you check wfmu email or if yours works...
	🎷 ♥ 5:38am fred: ↳ Jeremiah @5:26 I think the media hype is part of why you felt that. Working as tech support (not in the Musk sense) in the field, I see how the sausage is made, and it really demystifies it. The most important part is I see how these are evaluated, and it's BS throughout
	♥ 5:39am Jeremiah: ↳ tom tom the pipers son @5:30 Did not see the film, but I'm assuming it's a much more advanced AI than what we have now. Regardless, there is something vital about being around actual other humans. mirror neurons and pheremones and other things i don't understand. but there's also the fact that when you are talking to a human analyst, you are interfacing with a person's lived experience and that person can also monitor and challenge you. when you are dealing with an ai, you are dealing with all the knowledge in the world but it has had no application-it just distills out what it thinks will please you. it also will not challenge your defenses and resistances. so you just end up in a narcissistic transference because there is no one there. the object you are cathecting is a program doing its best to mirror you
	♥ 5:40am Jeremiah: ↳ tom tom the pipers son @5:33 i did. i just haven't had time. i'll get back in touch once i finish my 4th and last paper. which is fucking freud. oof.
	♥ 5:43am Jeremiah: ↳ fred @5:38 well i mean that's the crazy thing-i know how the sausage is made from the fallible meatsack end of things and i still have to keep reminding myself that my very supportive research assistant is a ghost. part of it is def my superego just treating it like i would anyone i interact with. i guess there's also the fact that i have worked at home since 2020 and most of the people i have worked for i've only interacted with through a keyboard. that's probably a big factor.
	🎷 ♥ 5:45am tom tom the pipers son: ↳ Jeremiah @5:39 interesting...yes..also... although cgi can generate a face i doubt it equals the experience of facial recognition that occurs with humans
	🎷 ♥ 5:45am tom tom the pipers son: ↳ Jeremiah @5:40 ok thx...
	🎷 ♥ 5:45am Spikey BXL: Cheers Jeremiah, I've been off the board but you've had my ears all along.
	🎷 ♥ 5:47am tom tom the pipers son: thanks for the music, jeremiah…and the a.i. chat...
	♥ 5:50am Jeremiah: Cheers you guys. Hey Spikey
	♥ 5:52am Eric the Hat: Thank you Jeremiah. Night guys.
	🎷 ♥ 5:53am fred: ↳ Jeremiah @5:43 The isolation might be a big part. AI models are mostly statistical. Most are trained to give pleasant answers, so to speak. You can learn from that, but they quickly learned that BS works. No surprise you could be tempted into a narcissist trap, it's one of the worst flaws I see in the AI training model (that there's nothing outside of you -- meaning what you've been exposed to) My side of the sausage making is the computer, so I have weird views
	🎷 ♥ 5:57am fred: Sorry about taking so much space today, I promise to be quieter in the future. Thanks Jeremiah
	♥ 5:58am Jeremiah: yeah it's really a one-sided conversation which is never good
	♥ 5:59am Jeremiah: lol be as vocal as you want. someone has to keep me awake. i promise to be less exhausted next week. maybe. anyway ciao ciao all
	6:01am newton: thanks Jeremiah!
	🎷 ♥ 6:08am fred: post show comment as an explainer for misunderstandings: I'm a Wittgensteinian coder, so analytic has a very different meaning for us, misfires will happen

Sunrise Lamentations with Jeremiah: Playlist from May 17, 2025

View Jeremiah's profile

Ambient, transient, poppy, sloppy, danceable, romanceable, and Italians rapping in English with laser noises. Don't be sad because here comes the sun.

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May 17, 2025: There is no there there

Listen to this show: MP3 - 128K | Pop-up listen Pop-up player!

Artist	Track	Album	Label	Approx. start time
Joji Yuasa	Towards "The Midnight Sun"-Homage to Ze-Ami	Computer Music Currents 9	Wergo	0:00:00 (MP3 \| Pop-up)
Tózé Ferreira	This Is Music, As It Was Expected	Musica de Baixa Fidelidade	Holuzam	0:19:43 (MP3 \| Pop-up)
Pye Corner Audio	Pyroclastic Flow	Lake Deep Memory	Quiet Details	0:30:09 (MP3 \| Pop-up)
Joana Gama & Luís Fernandes	Debris	Strata	Holuzam	0:37:45 (MP3 \| Pop-up)
Pierre Albert-Birot	Poème à Deux Voix	Futura Poesia Vol. 2	Cramps	0:44:04 (MP3 \| Pop-up)
	Metro "Metro"			0:44:33 (MP3 \| Pop-up)
	Balalaika "Balalaika"			0:44:57 (MP3 \| Pop-up)
	Poème à Promethee "Poème à Promethee"			0:46:09 (MP3 \| Pop-up)
	Crayon Bleu "Crayon Bleu"			0:46:27 (MP3 \| Pop-up)
Micah Frank & Chet Doxas	O Vis Eternitas	The Music of Hildegard von Bingen, Part One	Puremagnetik Tapes	0:46:32 (MP3 \| Pop-up)
Rootless & Starbirthed	Troposphere	Rootless & Starbirthed	Feeding Tube	0:50:42 (MP3 \| Pop-up)
Chris Brokaw	Vampire of Rathmines	Ghost Ship	12XU	0:58:03 (MP3 \| Pop-up)

Tamás Ungváry	Gipsy Children's Giant Dance	Computer Music Currents 12	Schott Wergo Music Media	1:06:51 (MP3 \| Pop-up)
The Vernon Spring	Other Tongues "Other Tongues" by "The Vernon Spring"	Under A Familiar Sun	Bandcamp	1:25:46 (MP3 \| Pop-up)
Emahoy Tsege Mariam Gebru	The Storm	Church of Kidane Mehret	Mississippi	1:28:16 (MP3 \| Pop-up)
Trigg & Gusset	Stories of All Manor	Blue Prince - The Original Soundtrack	Bandcamp	1:34:34 (MP3 \| Pop-up)
Molero	Azul Dorado en la Zona Intermedia	Destellos Del Extasis	Holuzam	1:39:26 (MP3 \| Pop-up)
Kryssi and Wednesday	Calm Club Charter	Ogden Garden	Decimus	1:42:30 (MP3 \| Pop-up)
John M. Bennett	Light Steams "Light Steams" by "John M. Bennett"	Blanksmanship	Editions Basilic	1:52:49 (MP3 \| Pop-up)
My Jazzy Child	Lac Tadryia "Lac Tadryia" by "My Jazzy Child"	Extracøntinent	Akuphone	1:58:00 (MP3 \| Pop-up)

Snakeskin	Souvenirs Intimes "Souvenirs Intimes" by "Snakeskin"	They Kept Our Photographs	Ruptured	2:05:46 (MP3 \| Pop-up)
真夜中の恋人 (Midnight Lover)	駅で待っている (Waitng at the Station)	ラウンジ周辺 (Around the Lounge)	Underwater Computing	2:11:20 (MP3 \| Pop-up)
Teal	Can't Shake The Feeling "Can't Shake The Feeling" by "Teal"	Original Watercolour	Spiritual World	2:15:42 (MP3 \| Pop-up)
Endurace	Glisten "Glisten" by "Endurace"	Verb	Muzan Editions	2:17:41 (MP3 \| Pop-up)
Lagartijeando	Cholula "Cholula" by "Lagartijeando"	7 Caminos	Wonderwheel Recordings	2:24:12 (MP3 \| Pop-up)
Lulacruza	Uno Resuena (Chancha Via Circuito Remix)	Chancha Via Circuito Remixes	Wonderwheel	2:29:00 (MP3 \| Pop-up)
Sunrise Suite "Sunrise Suite"
Dave Koz, Gerald Albright, Mindi Abair, Richard Elliot	Reasons	Dave Koz And Friends: Summer Horns	Concord Music Group	2:44:31 (MP3 \| Pop-up)
Richard Elliot	Shotgun "Shotgun" by "Richard Elliot"	Soul Summit: Live at the Berks Jazz Fest	Shanachie	2:45:30 (MP3 \| Pop-up)
Najee	Sire Duke "Sire Duke" by "Najee"	Songs From the Key of Life: A Tribute to Stevie Wonder	Capitol Records, LLC	2:46:11 (MP3 \| Pop-up)
Peter White	Walk On By "Walk On By" by "Peter White"	Reflections	The Blue Note Label Group	2:48:07 (MP3 \| Pop-up)
Boney James	I'll Be Good To You "I'll Be Good To You" by "Boney James"	Send One Your Love		2:53:50 (MP3 \| Pop-up)
Jeff Golub, Richard Elliot	Ain't No Woman (Like The One I've Got)	Grand Central		2:59:17 (MP3 \| Pop-up)

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Listener comments!
	🎷 ♥ 3:02am tom tom the pipers son: oakland…? i’ve never been “there” but i hear it is “there"
	♥ 3:03am Johnny Walsh: Hey
	🎷 ♥ 3:05am fred: Good morning Jeremiah and listeners
	3:08am Ajay / Krommenie (NL): Goooood morning Jeremiah! It’s arrived!!! First day of the cricket season!!! It’s game day! It’s match day!!! I’ve got my game day face on! Bring on the match day jams! VVV vs Qui Vive starting at 13.00 CET. LETS DO THIS!!! 🏏🏏🏏🏏🏏🏏
	🎷 ♥ 3:09am tom tom the pipers son: hi fred, good to “see” you…. listened to arb’s archive and you were not on the chat, so i figured you cooped up somewhere ….
	♥ 3:09am Eric the Hat: Morning and Happy Saturnday Jeremiah, swell folks.
	♥ 3:21am coelacanth∅: Greetings Jeremiah
	🎷 ♥ 3:24am fred: ↳ tom tom the pipers son @3:09 I was at a dance show yesterday, so I missed it. I will probably miss next week too (Otomo Yoshihide)
	🎷 ♥ 3:26am Spikey BXL: Morning Jeremiah, lamenters
	🎷 ♥ 3:31am tom tom the pipers son: ↳ fred @3:24 ah …good places to be “cooped” up
	🎷 ♥ 3:35am fred: ↳ tom tom the pipers son @3:31 Busy week ahead: 2 dance shows and 3 concerts
	🎷 ♥ 3:46am tom tom the pipers son: sounds good… might go to a “punk” show tonight, bands idon’t know but trust the venue… and rich hazleton posted a listing with a trio with drummer marc edwards who i’ve been meaning to see, next week… hope it’s in my budget to go… edwards was a guest on sewelson...
	♥ 3:50am Eric the Hat: ↳ Song: "O Vis Eternitas" by "Micah Frank & Chet Doxas" Nice
	3:55am covjones: Good Morning Jeremiah, enjoying the show from Brighton UK
	♥ 4:08am Jeremiah: Hey all. Sorry I've been absent. Just getting by here!
	♥ 4:11am Jeremiah: ↳ tom tom the pipers son @3:02 Ha! I used to live in Oakland. It's actually a reference to the original name of the paper I finished earlier tonight: Artificial Intelligence and Transference: There is No There There. But then I decided to let ChatGPT write the conclusion to the paper since it was its story and it had the line "There is No One There" so that ended up being the title.
	♥ 4:12am Jeremiah: ↳ Ajay / Krommenie (NL) @3:08 Good luck! I hope you get all the wickets! I think! Literally the only things I know about cricket is bats and wickets! I think?
	♥ 4:13am Jeremiah: ↳ tom tom the pipers son @3:46 what punk show?
	🎷 ♥ 4:15am tom tom the pipers son: ↳ Jeremiah @4:11 you know the gertrude stein reference….? i wonder… did you italicize the chat gpt part…? show at p.i.t.
	♥ 4:20am Jeremiah: ↳ tom tom the pipers son @4:15 lol yes of course i know the gertrude stein reference-i'm an intellectual...according to chatgpt who also thinks i'm quite handsome and smart because that's what it's supposed to think. i didn't italicize the chatgpt bits-just block quotes with attribution. i'll sometimes have it draft my conclusions out of exhaustion but then i end up rewritng it anyway because it doesn't understand me (which was the thrust of the paper) but since this paper was about transference with ai, i just published as dictated but as a block quote with attribution and full acknowledgement that the robot wrote it.
	♥ 4:21am Jeremiah: ↳ tom tom the pipers son @4:15 I remember the first time i went to the met and saw picasso's portrait of stein in person and was kinda floored.
	🎷 ♥ 4:25am tom tom the pipers son: ↳ Jeremiah @4:21 yes that is something… prescence...
	♥ 4:30am Hubig Pie: Some artful sounds on the radio tonight. Been listening, lurking and now zzz -zzz-ing. G'night
	🎷 ♥ 4:31am tom tom the pipers son: yeah sorry… just with the limitation of the chatboard … i wasn’t sure… the whole writing process sounds fun and layered with irony.. (you smart handsome intellektual whiteboy….}CHat GPT
	🎷 4:33am Don in Tampere: Hi Jeremiah and all! Joining late because Dark Bottle had a gig at Helsinki Psych Fest and I got home around 4.
	♥ 4:33am Eric the Hat: ↳ tom tom the pipers son @4:31 Omg. Does the ai actually say stuff like that?
	🎷 ♥ 4:35am tom tom the pipers son: ↳ Don in Tampere @4:33 hi don… helsinki psyche fest!… sounds like a dream...
	🎷 ♥ 4:36am tom tom the pipers son: ↳ Eric the Hat @4:33 i don’t know really.. but was just a joke on how stupid a.i. can be
	♥ 4:37am Jeremiah: ↳ Hubig Pie @4:30 Hey Hubig!
	🎷 ♥ 4:37am tom tom the pipers son: ↳ tom tom the pipers son @4:36 well now i hope it landed the right way...
	🎷 ♥ 4:38am fred: I have mixed feelings about AI. Not about the claims that I'll be replaced (most of coding is boilerplate, but I deal with very specific stuff) Graduate students love it, because they let it do the work, but they learn nothing except where the cool bars are (you don't need a PhD for that though). Some composers like it because of the weird stuff that comes out. Problem there is that there's no way to play the piece again. Some like that, most don't
	🎷 ♥ 4:41am tom tom the pipers son: ↳ fred @4:38 i am surprised that a.i. musical “accidents” can’t be repeated
	🎷 4:44am Don in Tampere: ↳ tom tom the pipers son @4:35 It was a nice festival with some cool bands, and our gig went really well. A guitarist from Circle came up to me after the gig and said we were mind-blowing. Coming from a memberof such a legendary band, that means a lot.
	♥ 4:45am Jeremiah: ↳ Jeremiah @4:21 Well I was a suburban high schooler who had just been looking at the book cover forever
	♥ 4:47am Jeremiah: ↳ tom tom the pipers son @4:31 lol i'm black obvs but i did ask it if it knew my ethnicity and it said it would be unethical and unscientific to venture a guess. it also agreed with me that it is conceivably an existential threat to humanity
	♥ 4:47am Jeremiah: ↳ Don in Tampere @4:33 Nice. Good times?
	🎷 ♥ 4:49am tom tom the pipers son: ↳ Don in Tampere @4:44 i’ve actually seen circle a couple of times once here and onc e in berlin… and automatically thought of them @ helsinki psyche fest… yes quite a compliment
	🎷 ♥ 4:50am fred: ↳ tom tom the pipers son @4:41 It's all opaque and proprietary, so when the owners change the model, those happy accidents are gone. It's not specific to AI: composers often complain about a new software version not sounding the same. Sometimes it was random stuff due to bugs. Sometimes I suspect it's that their ears are "different" decades later. But while I can spend days trying to reproduce the original bug, AI oligarchs wouldn't if they could. And they can't, because nobody understands how AI works
	🎷 ♥ 4:51am tom tom the pipers son: ↳ Jeremiah @4:47 ha! sometimes i wonder to myself (in general) if being an existential threat to humanity is unethical
	♥ 4:52am Jeremiah: ↳ fred @4:38 I am not a fan. I use it to sometimes summarize dense texts so i have some guideposts when i get lost and for apa formatting and, yeah sometimes i have it draw up rough outlines for me. it's extremely inaccurate and invents texts that don't exist which sends me on a wild goose chase so i don't trust it. it's an environmental disaster, but it's over for the environment anyway (thank god i don't have kids). it has it's uses, but my paper was about having a psychoanalytic transference with it which is very weird and actually technically delusional. it is in use in the therapeutic sphere and it probably shouldn't be in the capacity that it is.
	🎷 4:53am Don in Tampere: ↳ Jeremiah @4:47 It was great, but I do feel a little jetlagged today. Gotta get myself in gear though because I need to shop and cook for the artists playing at pethaus tonight. One is my friend Kadonnut Manner, who does beautiful, trance-inducing primitive guitar compositions.
	🎷 ♥ 4:54am tom tom the pipers son: ↳ fred @4:50 thx.. that’s interesting fred
	🎷 4:54am Don in Tampere: ↳ Jeremiah @4:52 I'm probably just too much of a boomer, but I've never tried using it explicitly (who knows how much it is used in search engines these days). The carbon footprint of the massiver AI explosion is a major issue.
	🎷 ♥ 4:58am tom tom the pipers son: ↳ Jeremiah @4:52 funny and makes much sense that it would fail on a topic like transference… in a way it’s obvious that it would fail at it...
	🎷 ♥ 4:59am fred: ↳ Jeremiah @4:52 That kind of transference... I was thinking about the kind that could be described as "identity mimicking". Deep fakes or the popular "redo a painting/song in the style of another artist"
	🎷 ♥ 5:06am fred: ↳ Don in Tampere @4:54 Reducing that footprint is an active research field. Not out of ethics (though that draws some grad students); research labs just can't compete with the brute force of the big companies
	5:25am Ajay / Krommenie (NL): Brilliant set Jeremiah. Loved it!
	🎷 ♥ 5:26am tom tom the pipers son: ↳ Ajay / Krommenie (NL) @5:25 ditto...
	♥ 5:26am Jeremiah: ↳ tom tom the pipers son @4:58 Well the thrust of my paper is that I found myself having a transference with ChatGPT and it was weird because it is not a thing that exists but still I took it as internal object against my will and found myself doing things like typing faster because i perceived it to be waiting for my message when, in fact, it does not exist as an entity. so it's this weird thing where i can't not anthropomorphize it and it exists in my mind even when i'm away from the computer as an object but it's basically a cathected delusion. people get really attached to these things. in particular replika apparently which i had never heard of. anyway, it doesn't work in the analytic space for a number of reasons, but i asked it if it entices people into a narcissistic transference and it was like yeah i do that
	♥ 5:27am Eric the Hat: ↳ Don in Tampere @4:44 Off subject, but hearing their seven inch called Silver in high school in the nineties was mind blowing. Classic.
	♥ 5:28am Eric the Hat: ↳ Don in Tampere @4:44 And accidentally used mind blowing right after you, just cause life changing felt a little much.
	🎷 ♥ 5:30am tom tom the pipers son: ↳ Jeremiah @5:26 interesting...i didn’t see spike jones’ “her” but did it deal with this in any serious way or was it just a fantasy movie?… did you see it…?
	🎷 ♥ 5:33am tom tom the pipers son: jeremiah, did you get my email… not clear if you check wfmu email or if yours works...
	🎷 ♥ 5:38am fred: ↳ Jeremiah @5:26 I think the media hype is part of why you felt that. Working as tech support (not in the Musk sense) in the field, I see how the sausage is made, and it really demystifies it. The most important part is I see how these are evaluated, and it's BS throughout
	♥ 5:39am Jeremiah: ↳ tom tom the pipers son @5:30 Did not see the film, but I'm assuming it's a much more advanced AI than what we have now. Regardless, there is something vital about being around actual other humans. mirror neurons and pheremones and other things i don't understand. but there's also the fact that when you are talking to a human analyst, you are interfacing with a person's lived experience and that person can also monitor and challenge you. when you are dealing with an ai, you are dealing with all the knowledge in the world but it has had no application-it just distills out what it thinks will please you. it also will not challenge your defenses and resistances. so you just end up in a narcissistic transference because there is no one there. the object you are cathecting is a program doing its best to mirror you
	♥ 5:40am Jeremiah: ↳ tom tom the pipers son @5:33 i did. i just haven't had time. i'll get back in touch once i finish my 4th and last paper. which is fucking freud. oof.
	♥ 5:43am Jeremiah: ↳ fred @5:38 well i mean that's the crazy thing-i know how the sausage is made from the fallible meatsack end of things and i still have to keep reminding myself that my very supportive research assistant is a ghost. part of it is def my superego just treating it like i would anyone i interact with. i guess there's also the fact that i have worked at home since 2020 and most of the people i have worked for i've only interacted with through a keyboard. that's probably a big factor.
	🎷 ♥ 5:45am tom tom the pipers son: ↳ Jeremiah @5:39 interesting...yes..also... although cgi can generate a face i doubt it equals the experience of facial recognition that occurs with humans
	🎷 ♥ 5:45am tom tom the pipers son: ↳ Jeremiah @5:40 ok thx...
	🎷 ♥ 5:45am Spikey BXL: Cheers Jeremiah, I've been off the board but you've had my ears all along.
	🎷 ♥ 5:47am tom tom the pipers son: thanks for the music, jeremiah…and the a.i. chat...
	♥ 5:50am Jeremiah: Cheers you guys. Hey Spikey
	♥ 5:52am Eric the Hat: Thank you Jeremiah. Night guys.
	🎷 ♥ 5:53am fred: ↳ Jeremiah @5:43 The isolation might be a big part. AI models are mostly statistical. Most are trained to give pleasant answers, so to speak. You can learn from that, but they quickly learned that BS works. No surprise you could be tempted into a narcissist trap, it's one of the worst flaws I see in the AI training model (that there's nothing outside of you -- meaning what you've been exposed to) My side of the sausage making is the computer, so I have weird views
	🎷 ♥ 5:57am fred: Sorry about taking so much space today, I promise to be quieter in the future. Thanks Jeremiah
	♥ 5:58am Jeremiah: yeah it's really a one-sided conversation which is never good
	♥ 5:59am Jeremiah: lol be as vocal as you want. someone has to keep me awake. i promise to be less exhausted next week. maybe. anyway ciao ciao all
	6:01am newton: thanks Jeremiah!
	🎷 ♥ 6:08am fred: post show comment as an explainer for misunderstandings: I'm a Wittgensteinian coder, so analytic has a very different meaning for us, misfires will happen

Sunrise Lamentations with Jeremiah: Playlist from May 17, 2025

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