Options Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from August 8, 2022 Options

Mark Hurst's avatar View Mark Hurst's profile Options

Conversations with creators and thinkers who are charting the way forward in a tech-saturated society. Tech, community, video games, and whatever else is next.

Monday 6 - 7pm (EDT) | On WFMU | 91.1, 90.1, 91.9 FM & wfmu.org
WFMU LIVE Audio Streams (Get help):   Pop-up  |  128k AAC  |  128k MP3  |  32k MP3

iTunes Feed Also available as an MP3 podcast. More info at our Podcast Central page.

<-- Previous playlist | Back to Techtonic with Mark Hurst playlists | Next playlist -->


Upcoming events:

Mon. Sep 26th, 6pm - 7pm: Subways and surveillance - with Christopher Robbins from Hell Gate (More info...)

Options August 8, 2022: James Bridle, author, "Ways of Being"

Listen to this show: MP3 - 128K | Pop-up listen Pop-up player!

Playlist image Options

Today: James Bridle, author, "Ways of Being: Animals, Plants, Machines: The Search for a Planetary Intelligence"

jamesbridle.com

Ways of Being Animals, Plants, Machines: The Search for a Planetary Intelligence, published by Farrar, Straus and Giroux

James Bridle on August 13, 2018 Techtonic speaking about "New Dark Age: Technology and the End of the Future."

In the news

A.I. Is Not Sentient. Why Do People Say It Is? (Cade Metz in the NYT, Aug 5, 2022): “Robots can’t think or feel, despite what the researchers who build them want to believe. ... Alison Gopnik, a professor of psychology who is part of the A.I. research group at the University of California, Berkeley, [said]: ‘The computational capacities of current A.I. like the large language models,’ she said, ‘don’t make it any more likely that they are sentient than that rocks or other machines are.’”

“The problem is that the people closest to the technology — the people explaining it to the public — live with one foot in the future. They sometimes see what they believe will happen as much as they see what is happening now.”

Amazon bought iRobot to see inside your home (The Verge, Aug 5, 2022): “Amazon has bought iRobot for $1.7 billion. ... it seems clear Amazon wants iRobot for the maps it generates to give it that deep understanding of our homes. The vacuum company has detailed knowledge of our floor plans and, crucially, how they change. It knows where your kitchen is, which your kids’ rooms are, where your sofa is (and how new it is), and if you recently turned the guest room into a nursery. This type of data is digital gold to a company whose primary purpose is to sell you more stuff.”

“Amazon’s history of sharing data with police departments through its subsidiary Ring, combined with its ‘always listening (for the wake word)’ Echo smart speakers and now its thorough knowledge of your floor plan, give it a pretty complete picture of your daily life.”

Bezos Didn't Even Need to Dismantle Bridge to Move Yacht (Jalopnik, Aug 5, 2022)

I Didn’t Want It to Be True, but the Medium Really Is the Message: excellent essay by Ezra Klein in the NYT (Aug 7, 2022): “the line of Postman’s that holds me is his challenge to the critics who spent their time urging television to be better, rather than asking what television was: ‘The trouble with such people is that they do not take television seriously enough.’ I have come to think the same of today’s technologists: Their problem is that they do not take technology seriously enough. They refuse to see how it is changing us or even how it is changing them.”

Just how often does NJ use babies' blood to ID criminal suspects? (Gothamist, Aug 3, 2022)

Facebook Approved Pro-Genocide Ads in Kenya After Claiming to Foster 'Safe and Secure' Elections (Gizmodo, July 29, 2022)

• On the topic of last week's show, about the failure of the Big Tech antitrust effort in Congress, the New York Times published this: Clock Running Out on Antitrust Bill Targeting Big Tech (Aug 5, 2022)

• Double Dip Recess (Aug 6, 2022), guest-hosted by Mark Hurst: Stream it here, or see the playlist.



Sign up to get Mark's weekly email newsletter. You can also join Mark’s Creative Good community.

PAST EPISODES: techtonic.fm lists recent Techtonic shows.

PODCAST: Subscribe to the Techtonic podcast

Artist Track Images Approx. start time
  James Bridle, author, "Ways of Being: Animals, Plants, Machines: The Search for a Planetary Intelligence"
Tomaš Dvořák  Game Boy Tune   Options
Options
 
  Mark's intro  
Options
 
  Interview with James Bridle  
Options
0:02:56 (MP3 | Pop-up)
  Mark's comments  
Options
0:40:35 (MP3 | Pop-up)
Moondog  Enough About Human Rights   Options
Options
0:53:48 (MP3 | Pop-up)


<-- Previous playlist | Back to Techtonic with Mark Hurst playlists | Next playlist -->

RSS feeds for Techtonic with Mark Hurst: RSSPlaylists feed | RSSMP3 archives feed

| E-mail Mark Hurst | Other WFMU Playlists | All artists played by Techtonic with Mark Hurst |

Listen on the Internet | Contact Us | Music & Programs | WFMU Home Page | Support Us | FAQ

Live Audio Streams for WFMU: Pop-up | 128k AAC | 128k MP3 | 32k MP3    (More streams: [+])


Listener comments!

Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:00pm ultradamno:

Mark! Techtontologists!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:01pm Webhamster Henry:

Hi Mark & Friends
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:01pm Hopey Sockmonkey:

Good afternoon/evening!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:01pm sbw:

Hi from L.A.!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:02pm Franco Twinkie:

What a great looking book jacket! Hi Mark.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:02pm Carmichael:

Heya Mark and techies.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:03pm Webhamster Henry:

IRobot: getting closer to the Love, Death & Robots short about killer home appliances. "Automated Customer Service"
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:03pm steveo:

because of the speed of light, we are all in the future
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:04pm ultradamno:

My pick for best of LD+R's new season twitter.com...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:04pm David (in London):

Evening Mark and assorted Technoids.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:04pm ultradamno:

(Automated Customer Service, from S2, is great too)
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:04pm Franco Twinkie:

Before the world turned to crap.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:04pm Webhamster Henry:

@ulrdamno .. yep that was a fun one.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:06pm Ken From Hyde Park:

Hi, Mark. Looking forward to a Techtocular show tonight!
Avatar 6:06pm Bas NL:

Hi Mark! Hi all!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:07pm Mark Hurst:

Hi all, thanks for joining this evening!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:07pm Baja Joe:

Hey there Mark.
  6:07pm yippie:

the smartest machine i have is my bike. someone flew a bike across the english channel before
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:08pm herb.nyc:

Hola. Mark said “intelligence and machines”. On ch2 local news now, about the mta. I’ll bet lotsa machines, and plants and animals, are smarter than mta executives.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:09pm Franco Twinkie:

This is starting to sound like The Blob.
  6:09pm The Butterman:

I’ve been thinking about slime molds ALL day! Turns out I got me some “Dog Vomit” on my property. Weird that theme is happening today.
  6:09pm Captain Mick:

Hello from Alaska!
Avatar 6:10pm Bas NL:

Go Slime Molds!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:10pm Mark Hurst:

@Mick greetings to you in Alaska from us in hot, hazy NYC/NJ.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:11pm Mark Hurst:

@Bas thanks for weighing in on PubHub on last week's playlist - www.wfmu.org...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:11pm Webhamster Henry:

HAHAH "Solutions" of equations on water based computers.
  6:12pm Jackie G:

What's the dew point in Alaska today?
  6:12pm David in London:

The London School of Economics had a water computer that modelled the economy. I saw it in the Eighties and it was amazing.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:12pm Mark Hurst:

@webham good one
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:13pm Franco Twinkie:

Am I alone in finding this beyond comprehension?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:13pm Mark Hurst:

@DiL Bridle writes quite a bit about the economy-modelling water computer in "Ways of Being"
Avatar 6:13pm Bas NL:

@Mark: PubHub is an interesting start, but it calls on a public effort like shown on Wikipedia.
  6:15pm The Butterman:

It’s ok Franco, you can do this!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:16pm ultradamno:

Everyone who responds to anyone concerned with the well being of an animal or animal with "what about human...blah blah blah" needs to hear this part. Bees and now butterflies diminishing means we all go...
  6:17pm The Butterman:

Happy elephants, happy elephants…
Travis the Chimp was happy when he was getting fed pills and booze ( use your xRay Burns voice).
Avatar 6:20pm HyperDose:

🎵 Give it all back to the animals, no one is gonna deliver us 🎵
Avatar 6:20pm Bas NL:

Lawyers find legal niches like slime mold.
  6:21pm The Butterman:

Bullshit, those were surveillance Robot Iguanas. No doubt.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:22pm Bracelet:

define based
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:22pm Franco Twinkie:

It's only to apparent that human beings are nothing but a hazard to all other sentient creatures. Humans off earth now!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:23pm Bracelet:

i think the point being made is that humans are part of earth and the inverse is also true @franco
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:24pm ultradamno:

I rewatched the ridiculously underappreciated movie Thoroughbreds again this week and am reminded of this concluding soliloquy "And eventually all the houses rot and collapse, and the people disappear, vanishing completely into the Internet. And then... and this is the really beautiful part, the horses take over. And the whole suburb is just beautiful thoroughbred stallions with no owners and no memory of owners and no way of knowing how expensive they are, just mating and galloping through the ruins."
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:24pm Franco Twinkie:

I know. But this is the comment board - a place to provoke.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:25pm Bracelet:

😏
  6:25pm The Butterman:

Alien monkey hybrids, no? Seem pretty plausible.
  6:25pm b0b0b0b0b Plasticland:

does this have anything todo with BUNNY on the Rock and Soul stream??
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:26pm Bracelet:

that sounds amazing @ultradamno !
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:26pm Webhamster Henry:

I think we can do artificial fly intelligence by now. If anyone wants to try it.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:26pm Franco Twinkie:

Step into the limelight slime mold.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:27pm JeremyB:

Klara and the Sun, ever read it. The humans are kinda the jerks and the AI's (which in the novel have a child like intelligence) are treated as property and generally very poorly. Reveals the awfulness of humans a bit.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:28pm JeremyB:

en.wikipedia.org...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:30pm Mark Hurst:

@Jeremy good pointer - time available I'd like to read it. I'm interested to know whether Ishiguro is sympathetic to the "feelings" and personhood of the AI things. This is going to be one of the major dividing lines in coming years.
  6:31pm R. Eublind:

just finished Klara and the Sun with an East Village Book Club. I'd like to see more discussions on this book.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:31pm diciassette:

An AI doesn't have a conscious. It's not human. The idea of AI being anthroporphized is DANGEROUS
Avatar 6:32pm katie:

AI does have an unconscious. Read Patricia Clough.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:33pm PaulRobeson1922:

Hi Mark! Hi all! WFMU Land!
Avatar 6:33pm Bas NL:

Are humans to decide what is 'legal'...
  6:34pm Captain Mick:

Whom else would, Bas?
  6:34pm timinoak:

Seems like this is getting muddied up with a fundamentalist anti tech take. Dunno. But i'm open to learn about tech beings.
  6:34pm The Butterman:

PaulRobeson, heavy shit here, man. Do you feel like you can handle it? I don’t want you to get freaked out!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:35pm PaulRobeson1922:

@The Butterman: old hat
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:35pm diciassette:

Let's hack up some nice, progressive, AIs to vote for us.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:35pm PaulRobeson1922:

Let's climb through the tide
Avatar 6:36pm Bas NL:

@Captain Mick: Sharks.
  6:36pm Captain Mick:

I'm a fan of sharks, Bas, so they have my vote.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:37pm Franco Twinkie:

If I were king I wound grant personhood to giant Sequoias. That accomplished, I would mandate they be saved at any cost. Humans take a seat.
Avatar 6:37pm mespr:

Interesting that all things considered "alive", including plants, exhibit a sleep cycle. Robots and AI programs do not sleep. They are on or off.
  6:37pm castor:

What would happen if we treated AI with the mindset of "poeisis", a mutual letting of coming into being, a cultivation of non-human intelligence while giving AI certain agency in their own creation, rather than with an impositional mindset that says only humans can decide exactly what AI should be and that we must impose what we think is "rational" upon AI? The problem with imposition is that it assumes humans are all-knowing and all-powerful, which we are not.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:38pm WR:

Corporations should not have personhood.
Avatar 6:38pm Pomme d'Or:

Good evening Mark and everyone!
  6:40pm The Butterman:

PaulRobeson, I go to get out of the car at my first Dead show, one leg out of the car and a shaggy, hairy bearded, longhair is in my face screaming at me “ hey man, I’m schizophrenic and do am I” as he shows me his shit which said the same. This moment prepared me for almost any experience dealing with people.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:42pm WR:

Virulent competition. Good phrase.
Avatar 6:43pm Bas NL:

That's MISTER Slime Mold to you!
Avatar 6:43pm HyperDose:

Ahh spoilies!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:43pm PaulRobeson1922:

@The Butterman: LOL
  6:43pm David in London:

Stafford Beer was an amazing guy. His Project Cybersyn control room is the coolest thing before the internet age.
  6:44pm David in London:

That was a great interview.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:45pm DjLorraine:

The Secret Life of Trees is good
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:45pm PaulRobeson1922:

@The Butterman: look here, read what I wrote on my shirt…
  6:45pm logicbeach:

Ahh i found the comment board!
I wanted to say how cool it was that they open this hour with the Machinarium soundtrack!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:45pm ultradamno:

And that would make my list of reasons to never see The Grateful Dead, if had known about it before I came up with the ones I've had up until now.
  6:45pm logicbeach:

Ahh i found the comment board!
I wanted to say how cool it was that they open this hour with the Machinarium soundtrack!
Avatar 6:45pm Bas NL:

Yes, great reasoning by James Bridle.
  6:47pm logicbeach:

I've always imagined brains are like antannae that tune into some sort of cosmic consciousness. No ai will have qualia until it is built to tune into that same consciousness.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:49pm PaulRobeson1922:

@The Butterman: & Remember, we don’t need digital technology or AI to end the world. The H Bomb was created before digital tech

For later… youtu.be...
Look over yonder tell me, what’s that AI U see?
  6:49pm castor:

These are very important questions, as history has shown it is sometimes quite a thin line between progress and disaster.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:49pm chresti:

Thanks James and Mark!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:49pm PaulRobeson1922:

What color is a rainbow? Google?
  6:51pm timinoak:

Maybe a good idea to be able to define and explore terms way before policies. Just too religious otherwise.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:51pm diciassette:

AI's specific purpose to give you the impression that it's sentient without actually being sentient.

Being somewhat diabolical, I can see all *kinds* of uses for the anthropomorphism of AI.
Avatar 6:51pm mespr:

When will mark guest host Bad Animals, and rename it "Bad Robots"?
  6:51pm castor:

"The owl of Minerva takes flight at dusk", we may not get the answers in our lifetime.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:52pm PaulRobeson1922:

But what would be the answer to the answer man
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:52pm joe mulligan:

Preach! I will punch out and curse the heck out of any robot. robot rights my ass!!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:52pm Ken From Hyde Park:

Sentient Foot Fungus, a good name for a band.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:52pm Franco Twinkie:

Once again, I'm so spooked by what's been concocted by our evil overlords, I will now go back to bed and cover my head with a pillow. Thanks Mark.
  6:52pm timinoak:

Belief isn't fact. That's religion.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:52pm diciassette:

Alison Gopnik is wonderful (likely sentient as well)
  6:53pm The Butterman:

Will do, PR’22
  6:53pm Captain Mick:

I'm so glad Mark agrees that the Google AI isn't actually sentient. Sorry, not sorry!
Avatar 6:53pm Bas NL:

Hi hi, nice one @Ken!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:54pm Webhamster Henry:

So hard to get projection out of scientific research that seems to touch human capabilities.
  6:54pm Captain Mick:

Why am I not surprised Mark doesn't own a Roomba? I sure fucking don't.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:55pm ultradamno:

Remember Ask Delphi? The AI that became a bigot because they just spit back out what gets put in www.ladbible.com...
  6:55pm timinoak:

Lord
  6:55pm LogicBeach:

I was sooo happy to hear him refer to these things as statistical models. I studied machine learning for 2 years in college and it's all statistics.
Avatar 6:55pm Bas NL:

Maybe Big Tech organizes itself like slime mold?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:55pm ultradamno:

Roombas are spies...as has been covered here before
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:55pm PaulRobeson1922:

S.A.M can learn. S.A.M can dance
  6:56pm David in London:

Thanks Mark. Classic Techtonic tonight.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:56pm herb.nyc:

Lower east side ecology center will start ewaste collection very soon (if not already)
Avatar 6:56pm Picante Mint:

Great episode today Mark. Thank you.
Avatar 6:56pm Bas NL:

Thanks Mark! Thanks James!
  6:57pm lazy p:

<3!
  6:57pm castor:

Thank you Mark!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:57pm ultradamno:

Nice pareidolia pice
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:57pm ultradamno:

pic, that is.
  6:58pm hoeg:

perceptive as ever Mark :-) will digest at leisure while watching the dog exercising his dog rights
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:58pm coelacanth∅:

Thanks Mark
  6:58pm castor:

Love this song! What about giving personhood to Gaia, the self-sustaining earth system?
Bottom
Comment!
Name
Email
(C) 2022 WFMU. Generated by KenzoDB, written by Ken Garson