WFMU: Tony Coulter: Playlist from October 12, 2021

Listener comments!
	♥ 11:54am Sean in Bristol UK: Good afternoon Tony, greetings fellow listeners, so looking forward to the show, a prog fan of biblical proportions!
	♥ 11:57am Tony Coulter: Greetings, Sean!
	♥ 11:59am Tony Coulter: It's nice to see Brits here, rooting for their (prog) home team.
	🥁 ♥ 12:01pm listener james from westwood: Good Tuesday, Tony and all!
	♥ 12:02pm Sean in Bristol UK: Listener James, greetings
	♥ 12:03pm Tony Coulter: Hey there, James!
	🥁 ♥ 12:04pm Yvang: Hey Tony, Sean, James ! Let's prog !
	♥ 12:04pm TDK60: "Hiya" Tony. Prog from ye olde green and pleasant land? I must break out my WFMU cape.
	♥ 12:05pm Tony Coulter: Holla hula holla, Yvang and TDK60!
	🥁 ♥ 12:06pm David (in London): Oh my lord it's Tarkus. I always remember seeing that preposterous cover in the racks of Scorpion Records and boggling that anyone would have let it through into production. Ha ha. Hello Tony and all assembled Coultards.
	12:06pm V Priceless: Woo! Tony! Hey!
	♥ 12:06pm Rich in Washington: Hello, Tony! Hi everybody!
	🥁 ♥ 12:06pm WR: Hello Tony. Tarkus!
	🥁 ♥ 12:06pm spodiodi: good morning, Tony! aloha, all
	12:06pm Sean in Bristol, UK: Oh my goodness what a start
	♥ 12:07pm TDK60: Yeah David, and you all don't even have armadillos there.
	♥ 12:09pm Tony Coulter: Greetings, greetings, David, VP, Rich, WR, and spodi!!!
	🥁 ♥ 12:10pm David (in London): TDK, Spod, WR, Rich, Sean, Yvang, James, V Priceless, salutations all. TDK - It was probably my first introduction to that species!
	🥁 ♥ 12:11pm spodiodi: howdy, David (in Progdon)
	♥ 12:14pm TDK60: My Official Prog History: a) I used to love ELP back then. b) Patti Smith, the Buzzcocks, Mission of Burma (etc.) later appeared on the horizon. c) I became embarrassed by my older tastes. d) A long time passed and I didn't care anymore. Plus, some of the music is quite...musical. e) I then turned down a good paying gig at being a prog cop. We're up to this century..
	♥ 12:18pm StringOFperils: Hi, okay, parked the dragon, left rainbow sword at goat-check, annnd ready to prog....greetings, Tony C and minions of the carrot wizard
	♥ 12:19pm Tony Coulter: Hey there, StringOFperils! (Can I call you String, for short?)
	♥ 12:19pm Sean in Bristol UK: Hey David, TDK, Spod, WR, Rich, Yvang, V Priceless and StringOFperils
	♥ 12:19pm StringOFperils: You may call me String for any reason you can come up with. :)
	♥ 12:20pm TDK60: Hi Bristol Sean.
	♥ 12:21pm Little Danny: hi Tony, hi proggies
	♥ 12:21pm Rich in Washington: This is my fave Hawkwind LP.
	12:22pm V Priceless: heya Sean
	♥ 12:22pm Tony Coulter: Hi there, Little Danny!
	♥ 12:23pm TDK60: This is a great pick Tony, "Circle." Part is from a classical piece. (Holst?)
	12:24pm V Priceless: hey TC - have you checked-out Brit progstress Rosalie Cunningham?
	12:25pm rw: Good Morning! TDK, I think a lot of prog fans turned to punk rock. I was one. I don't see the two as mutually exclusive. Both genres were pushing boundaries.
	♥ 12:26pm Tony Coulter: @ VP: Nope -- don't know of her. Guess I should give a listen!
	♥ 12:26pm StringOFperils: Eating mermaid is unsustainable.
	♥ 12:27pm Tony Coulter: Morning, rw! I agree (obviously!)
	12:27pm rw: Oh, and Prog Cop??
	12:29pm V Priceless: yeah, worth a listen. She's definitely caught in an early 70's psych/prog/stoner time-warp. Some good tunes, too!
	🥁 ♥ 12:31pm spodiodi: howdy, Sean
	♥ 12:32pm TDK60: Rw, thanks. Prog cops monitor all WFMU shows; if prog is on they come on to let everyone know it's not cool.
	🥁 ♥ 12:32pm spodiodi: i can attest. i wonder if they get paid well, TDK60 \\//
	🥁 ♥ 12:33pm Asheville Jon: howdy Tony and everyone else!
	🥁 ♥ 12:34pm chresti: Hi Tony and forks! Spotty connection today in the canyon.
	♥ 12:34pm Sean in Bristol UK: Splendid set, Tony
	♥ 12:34pm TDK60: Then there are prog guards. They wear capes and soothe folks' tempers down.
	♥ 12:34pm Webhamster Henry: I. M. O. K.
	🥁 ♥ 12:35pm spodiodi: I M O K :) howdy, Jon, chresti \\//
	♥ 12:35pm TDK60: Hi spodi \\// Oh, there's chresti westi.
	12:35pm V Priceless: @ TDK60 - do you know of any openings for ABBA cops? : )
	♥ 12:36pm TDK60: Hi V Priceless. Hee.
	🥁 ♥ 12:37pm spodiodi: i think the ABBA cop jobs are drying up, but there are still plenty of Billy Joel police positions
	🥁 ♥ 12:37pm spodiodi: "good!" olo
	♥ 12:37pm coelacanth∅: greetings greetings greetings Tony and proggles
	♥ 12:37pm Tony Coulter: Hiya, heya, hooyah, Asheville Jon, chresti, and Hamster Henry!!
	♥ 12:38pm Webhamster Henry: "We're keeping these Hall and Oates cassettes are here in case one of them becomes a serial killer" - S. M. Ken
	♥ 12:38pm Tony Coulter: Greets, coel!
	12:38pm V Priceless: haha..hey, if anyone here has never heard Rick Wakeman's R&RHOF Yes induction speech, you must seek out same on yootube. Hey Fish!
	♥ 12:38pm TDK60: Just looked at Wickedpea page for Manfred M. 'Circle' tune. It says Debussy.
	🥁 ♥ 12:39pm spodiodi: aloha, coel haha Webhamster Henry
	♥ 12:40pm coelacanth∅: hey Veep! just thinking about you, and the lack of you recently! hey spodi!
	🥁 ♥ 12:46pm David (in London): Damnit, I had to leave the room and missed The Enid. Hurrah for The Enid!
	♥ 12:47pm Mike Sin: My knowledge and collection of prog-rock are pretty slim, so today's show and the previous week have been quite enlightening.
	🥁 ♥ 12:47pm David (in London): TDK, and **** the Prog Cops!
	♥ 12:48pm Webhamster Henry: @Mike Sin here's a primer: www.youtube.com...
	♥ 12:48pm Tony Coulter: Hey, Mike! Glad you're here!
	♥ 12:48pm StringOFperils: Prog Cops rune my groon.
	♥ 12:48pm TDK60: Mike S. And some of the stuff played here was not so known in the States then, aside from the famed Big Ones.
	♥ 12:50pm TDK60: David in Londonium: I can only agree.
	♥ 12:52pm Mike Sin: Most of the prog I have in my collection is when it crosses over into stoner rock or such -- sort of the ven diagram where '70s Floyd, Hawkwind, early Crimson, and Captain Beyond intersect.
	♥ 12:53pm StringOFperils: Most of these things were available in Canada, but only as specially imported pressings from UK, Belgium, France, Germany, etc. They were expensive, but worth it for generally higher quality pressings, covers that were printed better, and packaging that wasn't tragically altered in some way. So, for me at least, prog (as it wasn't called then) has always been something you had to search out. It enjoyed being....arcane?
	♥ 12:56pm TDK60: String: Yes, good U.S. record shops then had import bins. You had to search. The bands that got big were in the regular bins on U.S. labels.
	♥ 12:56pm Mike Sin: Oh man! This is the same Locomotive that did "Rudi's In Love" about two years before this? Too much!
	12:57pm rw: SOFperils, we were just wondering that at work the other day; was prog called prog at the time? Wasn't it called progressive rock? (or prog)?
	♥ 12:57pm TDK60: String" Yes, "prog" not used then; "progressive rock" was, right? When did the shortened term appear?
	🥁 ♥ 12:58pm David (in London): TDK, I can look back and see why the 'Prog vs Punk' wars happened, and they were perhaps 'necessary' at the time. But with 40 plus years having now elapsed, I can't see why it's worth continuing to fight them now. Frankly, I would question the motivation of people who do. Jesus, it's not like that 40 plus years hasn't thrown up many more worthy targets in the meantime...
	♥ 1:00pm TDK60: David: Yeah; at the time the dialectic made sense. Who cares anymore? (I wonder what someone like, say, Peter Gabriel thinks about such.)
	♥ 1:02pm StringOFperils: @rw > It DOES derive from that term, 'progressive rock', and that is what music people (rock press) were using to talk about it...the question of what 'it' was exactly never seemed locked in to me. PROG, the term, in my memory, begins in the early 80s probably. I never really used it myself; I just think this is 'art music'. It's just outside of the official academy, made by a different kind of longhair.
	🥁 ♥ 1:06pm David (in London): TDK, Gabriel is an interesting figure from that whole era, isn't he? Came from 'high' prog, then managed to fit in with the New Wave ('Games Without Frontiers' etc), and then became a bona fide 80s pop star. An unusual trajectory, never losing 'credibility'.
	♥ 1:07pm Sean in Bristol UK: I was in my early teens during this period, listening to glam rock, Carpenters, Eagles before my my ears were enlightened to Genesis, Camel, Caravan and Utopia. This evening’s music has really expanded my knowledge
	♥ 1:07pm Tony Coulter: I'd say the term "progressive" was originally used for lots of bands that wouldn't be considered "prog rock" today. In the end, it is pretty nebulous just what prog rock/progressive rock is -- which doesn't stop me from playing it!
	1:08pm rw: Ha! String, I was about to say, I kind of remember calling this stuff Art Rock at the time. I guess it's been a long time. I don't really trust my memories anymore!
	♥ 1:08pm StringOFperils: I remember a really snooty guy, being condescending about prog, while he was bathing in his own vanity about the Mazzy Star he had on. He's was saying prog was ridiculous 'noodling', and I thought, well, what the hell is Mazzy Star, if not that?
	1:10pm rw: On one thing we can agree, it's all Psychedelic Fork.
	♥ 1:10pm Mike Sin: I was pretty young in the '70s, but the terms I remember being used were "progressive rock" and "art rock." "Prog" seemed to come later after the genre was being codified and comped. Just like the term "Glam rock" in the US -- I think that was strictly the UK term. In the New York area, the only term I remember hearing was "glitter rock"... or "glet-tuh rawk" if you were from Long Island.
	♥ 1:11pm TDK60: David at 1:06. Gabriel's 3rd solo "melting face" album was a revelation!
	1:13pm V Priceless: interesting thing is punks like Jello and Rotten adored Peter Hammill and VDGG. 'Pawn Hearts' was arguably a template for lots of so-called punks, etc.
	🥁 ♥ 1:16pm David (in London): TDK, yeah, that really opened my eyes, too. V Priceless, yes, Hammill got a free pass from everyone, didn't he? Like Roy Harper, pretty much everyone agreed he was good, no matter their 'tribe'.
	♥ 1:17pm StringOFperils: I half-believe half of everything that Jello B says, and that's partly why I love the guy.
	♥ 1:20pm TDK60: V Priceless: yeah Pawn Hearts, an odd one. David, some of the later Hammill seems to have gone in a similar trajectory as Gabriel musically, if less commercial. (Thinking of an album like 'In a Foreign Town' -1988.)
	♥ 1:21pm StringOFperils: Such a cool voice. AB.
	1:23pm V Priceless: Good point, David. PH may be his own genre LOL. I recently read somewhere that Bowie was heavy into "Chameleon in the Shadow of the Night" around the time he was preparing 'Station to Station'.
	♥ 1:23pm TDK60: This 'Galactic' album with Arthur Brown & K.C. is crazy too.
	♥ 1:24pm Sean in Bristol UK: Heart of the Sunrise, prog at it’s most majestic
	♥ 1:25pm Rich in Washington: I recall this song as teenager being used as the theme song for a Wiccan-themed talk radio show that would come on at 5am on KBOO.
	♥ 1:26pm TDK60: Rich: A teen listening to KBOO at 5 AM! Ahem.
	🥁 ♥ 1:26pm David (in London): Brothers and Sisters, I think we have reach our verdict: Prog is good. So sayeth the Council.
	♥ 1:27pm StringOFperils: I still like this. Roger Dean, not so much. But this is alright.
	♥ 1:28pm HollyRT: Hi, Prog Fans!! Late but made it
	♥ 1:29pm Tony Coulter: Hey, hey, Holly!
	♥ 1:29pm TDK60: This 'Sunrise' is delightful. I jest not.
	♥ 1:30pm StringOFperils: I like Chris Squire's bass work; he reminds me of Japan's Mick Karn who showed up later on.
	1:31pm rw: I have a pile of VDGG and PH records, but no Yes. I DO like this song though. Not sure how I feel about Roger Dean from this side of history. Seems perfect for what it was.
	♥ 1:32pm RevWaldo: Yes - the choice of hopeful super scientists everwhere - www.youtube.com...
	1:32pm rw: To reiterate (or agree with) SoP
	♥ 1:33pm Tony Coulter: Ahoy, REvWaldo!
	♥ 1:33pm coelacanth∅: did Roger Dean have anything to do with yes besides album art? i've never known of any musical connection.
	🥁 ♥ 1:34pm David (in London): String, glad you bought up Mick Karn. What an amazing, distinctive musician, who doesn't often get his rightful dues.
	♥ 1:34pm Tony Coulter: @ coel: Nope -- he just did the covers (and covers for plenty of other bands too, of course).
	♥ 1:35pm HollyRT: Oh hey, those of you who were around then (I was, but was a little kid, b. late 60s): what WAS prog called then? "Classical rock" or some such?
	1:36pm rw: Haha, Holly, scroll up!
	♥ 1:36pm coelacanth∅: progressive rock>prog rock>prog.
	1:36pm V Priceless: I was surprised to learn that Dean's biggest artistic influence was the 60's-era Fillmore / West Coast poster artists.
	♥ 1:36pm HollyRT: Nvm just scrolled back through the discussion!!
	♥ 1:37pm coelacanth∅: i was in the shower for that discussion.
	♥ 1:37pm TDK60: Holly, I think some did call it classical rock, or art rock too.
	♥ 1:38pm StringOFperils: Most musical changes from say 1965 to 1975 were SO rapid, and so 'progressive', I don't recall the fledgling rock press having much genuine success keeping up with it. Most of these harder definitions gain traction after more history accrues.
	♥ 1:38pm TDK60: V Priceless, I'm not so surprised to hear Dean was influenced by the S.F. artists.
	1:40pm rw: This is too much fun for me. I need to refocus on work. Probably check back in later... please carry on carrying on.
	♥ 1:40pm coelacanth∅: somebody called it progressive rock and it stuck. -same as with the far more absurd "new wave" and even more absurd "post punk". i mean, it does mean something.
	♥ 1:40pm Tony Coulter: See you, rw!
	1:40pm V Priceless: @ TDK60 - yeah, it does make perfect sense, actually
	♥ 1:41pm HollyRT: As I have gotten m ore into prof, esp where it crosses over into RIO territory and avant stuff like Henry Cow, I have come to the conclusion that there's a straight through-line to a lot of post-punk/new wave.
	♥ 1:41pm HollyRT: prof = prog, obv.
	1:42pm V Priceless: Woo! Love this Hackett!
	♥ 1:43pm Tony Coulter: @ Holly: Absolutely agree. Just as there is a straight through-line running from psych into prog.
	♥ 1:44pm coelacanth∅: i remember the term "classical rock". that makes more sense than "progressive rock", because {StringO @1.38} ...art rock? even more broad!
	1:44pm OED: progressive rock n. Music. any of various innovative forms of rock music, esp. associated with the late 1960s and 1970s, typically featuring intricate (often classically influenced) musical motifs, prominent use of electronic instrumentation, extended compositions, self-consciously intellectual or poetic lyrics, and displays of musical virtuosity. [1968 Chicago Tribune 28 Apr. x. 10/4 Billboard magazine calls it ‘progressive rock programming’. Record World calls it ‘alternative radio’.] 1968 N.Y. Times 4 Aug. d20/1 Much of what we cherished in progressive rock is musically advanced but emotionally barren. The indulgence of a new, cerebral audience has endangered that raw vitality which was once a hallmark of the rock experience. 1975 New Yorker 24 Mar. 6 Two progressive-rock bands..share the stage. 1993 Network June 9/2 Progressive rock and supergroup are labels that Asia's Geoff Downes can do without. 2000 M. Barrowcliffe Girlfriend 44 xii. 335 Emily, whose scientist friends played Dungeons and Dragons and would try to tell you how clever the lyrics were on progressive rock albums.
	♥ 1:45pm HollyRT: And then there's "space rock" which I guess is...Hawkwind? Pink Floyd?
	♥ 1:47pm TDK60: It was progressive in the sense of mixing classical, jazz, rock, styles, new at the time.
	♥ 1:47pm coelacanth∅: wow, i did not know Steve Hackett went there! far better than genesis, in my so very humble and unpopular opinion!
	♥ 1:48pm StringOFperils: Yay! Flash! Great band.
	♥ 1:49pm coelacanth∅: TDK, true; but still it's a very general term, almost as meaningless as "alternative". (well, maybe not as profoundly stupid)
	♥ 1:52pm coelacanth∅: OED that's all the views from the outside; from people who don't get it. broad generalizations, like the genre label itself. nytimes person wasn't listening. other person was projecting maybe?
	🥁 ♥ 1:53pm David (in London): And then there was... Zorch, the duck-billed platypus of the Prog era.
	♥ 1:56pm StringOFperils: The categories are just signifiers, sign-posts, that make a conversation possible. Or a dispute. They are of no use to the music itself, and often filter its reception so much that all that language just f***s it up.
	♥ 1:56pm coelacanth∅: pink floyd was not considered progressive rock in the 70s, and commonly still not. was it called that in the 60s?
	♥ 1:57pm Tony Coulter: @ Holly: Yeah, Hawkwind and '70s Floyd get called space rock .. but I'm bending "the rules" and sticking them in anyway.
	♥ 1:57pm TDK60: coel: I thought P.F. was considered prog. I did.
	♥ 1:58pm Rich in Washington: This is the one Floyd album I could never warm to. It's actually a good one to pigeonhole as a prog record, though.
	♥ 1:58pm Tony Coulter: @ Rich: Yep, I tried to find a (good) example of them at their "proggiest."
	♥ 2:00pm Rich in Washington: i love Pink Floyd in that era. No idea why that album just doesn't quite do it for me. Maybe too much direction from Barbet Schroeder?
	♥ 2:00pm TDK60: String: right, labels are just a shorthand to help, maybe. I could see Pink F. as psych, prog and space, as overlapping.
	♥ 2:01pm coelacanth∅: TDK it makes sense too, really -but 'floyd's not "intellectual" in the way that the new york times idiot was referring to. mostly used 4 or 6 beats/measure, and the lyrics were usually more personal than philosophical. we called it "space rock"
	♥ 2:02pm coelacanth∅: ...but that's not to imply any less Brilliance. pink floyd was Brilliant.
	♥ 2:04pm TDK60: Question: Were there any prog bands /without/ organs?
	🥁 ♥ 2:04pm David (in London): Coela, you've touched on something that - certainly on this side of the pond - was quite important, in that there was a not inconsiderable element of class animus surrounding Prog.
	♥ 2:06pm Tony Coulter: @ DK60: Yes -- but I love the organ, so you're getting plenty of organ whether you like it or not!
	2:06pm rw: Hey, sorry, I can't help myself. Sitting here thinking about another conversation we've been having at work. Where did the upper register singing start? Robert Plant? We have a running joke about how Journey picked their singer.
	♥ 2:07pm TDK60: Tony, plenty of organ is alright with me.
	♥ 2:07pm coelacanth∅: i think a lot of journalists/critics who were too narrow-minded (simple-minded?!) to understand "prog" listened to a song by asia and a song by rush and maybe one of the more overblown yessongs and decided they had enough to write an article about it.
	♥ 2:07pm Tony Coulter: I will not make a joke.
	2:08pm rw: TC, you just did.
	♥ 2:08pm Tony Coulter: Oops.
	🥁 ♥ 2:09pm David (in London): Prog is full of magnificent organs. Fnarr, fnarr. (I'm crass enough to do it for you, Tony).
	🥁 ♥ 2:09pm spodiodi: :)
	2:11pm V Priceless: oh hell yes
	🥁 ♥ 2:12pm David (in London): V Priceless, cut loose!
	2:12pm V Priceless: Prog meets Punk at Psych's House (With No Door)!
	♥ 2:13pm Rich in Washington: Love VDGG! Was waiting for this!
	2:13pm rw: This song reminds me of riding around stoned on LSD in the back of a Pinto afraid for my life but kind of loving it.
	♥ 2:14pm coelacanth∅: David yes here too, at least in high school! the few "prog" kids had long hair and were generally not outgoing or partygoers or athletes and a lot of other kids thought they were snobs. it's common in society in general. "intellectuals" sometimes must dummy down their communication to be accepted by those who would ostracize them for being different.
	2:14pm V Priceless: @ rw: horse or car? : )
	♥ 2:14pm coelacanth∅: ...i don't know if that's exactly what you mean!
	🥁 ♥ 2:14pm David (in London): rw, oh no! The Pinto was the one prone into bursting into flames if I recall rightly? That can't have mixed well with acid.
	2:14pm rw: VP, Psychedelic Ford
	♥ 2:16pm StringOFperils: @rw > You should listen to Small Faces' You Need Loving' from 1966. I think you'll hear Robert Plant. Except....he's not on the radar yet. www.youtube.com...
	♥ 2:16pm coelacanth∅: i was thinking the horse! ...the car? how do you stay on the back of a pinto? it's like a sliding board
	♥ 2:21pm TDK60: Been thinking of those poor prog roadies, having to carry all that gear aside from guitars and amps. Organs, gongs, moogs, capes.
	♥ 2:22pm Tony Coulter: @ TDK60: And the less successful prog bands had to carry all that stuff themselves.
	♥ 2:22pm Little Danny: haha TDK, totally
	🥁 ♥ 2:24pm David (in London): Being a cape roadie was a serious business... But Keith Levene from PiL worked as a roadie for Yes, showing again that the Prog / Punk Year Zero distinction was perhaps a little more blurred in real life than people made it seem at the time.
	🥁 ♥ 2:25pm Julie: Rare Bird!
	🥁 ♥ 2:26pm WR: The quotes OED copied and various other comments triggered me to think back about the marketing label "prog rock" and I truly don't remember when the term got established. I graduated HS in '69 and worked from '69 to '75 in record stores. So I was immersed in music magazines and label marketing. I was enthusiastic fan of Soft Machine, Keith Emerson, Gong, Kevin Ayers, early Pink Floyd, early King Crimson, Keith Tippett, Chris MacGregor, which show me leaning more to the avant jazz infused rock. Early Genesis and Van Der Graaf I added to my collection as well. Friends were big fans of Yes and Strawbs and and Gentle Giant and Atomic Rooster which I tolerated in small doses. I don't remember when prog became a term but vaguely recalls by mid-70s when next generation bands like Rush were finding an audience that the term was being used in marketing. I remembered that all issues of Trouser Press magazine are now digitized online: trouserpress.com They started in 1974. Searching in the first two issues, which feature King Crimson, Genesis; the only mention of "progressive rock" was to describe the evolution of the Yardbirds beyond the blues infused rock of John Mayall, et al.
	♥ 2:26pm TDK60: David, I recall seeing San Fran hardcore band Dirty Rotten Imbeciles (D.R.I.) in maybe '83? The singer had a Pink Floyd T-shirt on. Shock value at that point in time. Hee.
	♥ 2:26pm Tony Coulter: Hey, Julie! Julie's show today will be all rare birds! (It'll be bird-themed.)
	2:32pm OED: Google Ngram Viewer shows occurrences of the ngram prog rock ...beginning around 1968. https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=prog+rock&year_start=1950&year_end=2019&corpus=26&smoothing=3#
	🥁 ♥ 2:32pm David (in London): I remember Andy Partridge of XTC saying that they had discussed doing another spoof album as The Dukes of Stratosphere as they moved on into the 70s, either as The Stratosphere Gang (glam) or as a Prog band. Shame they never made that a reality,
	🥁 ♥ 2:33pm Julie: drum solo!
	♥ 2:34pm Tony Coulter: Today's first, I think.
	🥁 ♥ 2:35pm David (in London): Also: hello Julie!
	♥ 2:36pm Rich in Washington: I've always loved and still champion the term Art Rock. It can encompass Prog, Canterbury, experimental music, Fusion, Kraut, etc
	2:37pm V Priceless: @ David - that would have been a blast, I'm sure. I see Terry Chambers has picked up the XTC flag as 'EXTC'. Coming to the states next year.
	♥ 2:37pm coelacanth∅: i really have a tough time with labels in general. i use air quotes a lot when i talk about music
	2:38pm V Priceless: @ coel - I'm with you. Almost everything connects, at some point.
	♥ 2:40pm TDK60: Labels help sometimes. At the record shop. Like, you don't want Van Der Graaf Generator lost in the Rockabilly section, eh?
	♥ 2:45pm coelacanth∅: i found out one day that there were many sub-divisions of heavy metal (now just metal) it took years to wrap my head around what was what! it all comes down to one person describing some music as something then the masses latch onto it and that's what it's called now. ...i still don't know what "emo" is; and "screamo" is apparently something other than what sounds like screamo to me!
	♥ 2:46pm coelacanth∅: TDK for sure. 'just i, personally, have trouble designating something as one thing, when it's really so many things.
	🥁 ♥ 2:46pm David (in London): And then you have the conundrum of The Stranglers. A Punk band, rejected by some other Punks, who had one of the greatest ever Prog organ players essential to their sound. Still makes absolutely no sense today. Utterly glorious they were (/ are).
	🥁 ♥ 2:49pm David (in London): Coela, joke I heard the other day... What's the difference between Goth and Emo? Goths have no time to cry. (Apologies if you're not a Sisters of Mercy fan, there).
	♥ 2:50pm coelacanth∅: well yeah! and dead kennedys playing jazz impeccably, incorporating it into a hardcore punk song with grace!
	🥁 ♥ 2:52pm Julie: I will be here, shortly wfmu.org...
	2:52pm V Priceless: all hail the meninblack. RIP Dave Greenfield. Tragic loss.
	♥ 2:53pm coelacanth∅: i guess one does have to both listen to the music and understand the labeling to understand that!
	♥ 2:53pm TDK60: coel, "emo" was originally a subgenre of '80s hardcore punk. Probably changed over years but I don't know the later uses.
	♥ 2:53pm coelacanth∅: (i do quite like that one sisters of mercy song. the big hit)
	🥁 ♥ 2:55pm spodiodi: thanks, Tony!
	2:55pm V Priceless: I noticed labels did not prevent JJ Cale albums from being filed in the John Cale bin at the long-defunct Tower Records
	🥁 ♥ 2:56pm David (in London): Thanks Tony, great part 2 show today. Really enjoyed it. And the Tarkus cover was a ridiculous bonus. V Priceless, stands to salute Mr Greenfield
	♥ 2:56pm coelacanth∅: TDK and obviously short for "emotional" but what does that mean in terms of music? i'm told weezer is or was emo. i just hear it as pop music (another stupid genre name!) and certainly far less emotional, emotive, sad, etc than tons of other music not called emo! !!!
	♥ 2:57pm TDK60: Coel: Weezer? Don't know it. I think the earliest emo mighta been Minor Threat or Fugazi. [?]
	2:58pm rw: THXTC!!! Fantastic.
	🥁 ♥ 2:58pm listener james from westwood: Been wading thru both editing and a leak from my dishwasher but listening in rapture all the while—thanks, Tony!
	🥁 ♥ 2:59pm Yvang: Thanks Tony for the great Special!
	♥ 2:59pm TDK60: Thanks Tony. Great choices today. Will check out Part I soon!...
	♥ 2:59pm coelacanth∅: minor threat is called emo? at the time it was called "punk"!
	♥ 2:59pm HollyRT: Great show, Tony!!
	♥ 2:59pm Tony Coulter: Thanks, everyone!! See you next week!
	2:59pm V Priceless: thanks for a fab show, Tony! When's Part III? @ David: cheers! good to ketchup with you, too, coelacanth! Prog on, gang! rw: LOL THXTC!
	♥ 3:00pm Rich in Washington: Thanks, Tony! Looking forward to your singles show next week!
	♥ 3:00pm coelacanth∅: part 3 next week?! Thanks Tony! tchau y'all
	♥ 3:00pm TDK60: coel "emo" within a h/c '80s milieu. Most of the bands were political up to that point.
	♥ 3:00pm coelacanth∅: great to see ya 'gin Veep!
	🥁 ♥ 3:01pm WR: Thank you Tony! Whatever the label the selections you played for us have a definite commonality. Onward.
	♥ 3:01pm StringOFperils: Thank you!!
	♥ 3:02pm coelacanth∅: TDK right on. emo in hindsight. ...by some people's estimation! i will not be calling it that
	♥ 3:03pm TDK60: No coel, it was called that at the time, within a small h/c scene. Before "alternative" rock came along.
	🥁 ♥ 2:18pm Nick S.: Great show, Tony! Catching up over here.

Tony Coulter: Playlist from October 12, 2021

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I play rhinoceros and psychedelic fork.

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October 12, 2021: U.K. Prog Rock Special, Part 2

Listen to this show: Pop-up listen Pop-up player!

Artist	Track	Album	Label	Year	Approx. start time
The In-Theme	"The In-Theme"				0:00:00 (Pop-up)
Emerson, Lake & Palmer	Tarkus (excerpt)	Tarkus	Manticore	1971	0:01:57 (Pop-up)
Julian Jay Savarin	Cycle "Cycle" by "Julian Jay Savarin"	Waiters on the Dance	RE: Esoteric	1973	0:08:31 (Pop-up)
The Enid	The Devil "The Devil" by "The Enid"	In the Realm of the Summer Stars	Buk	1976	0:12:51 (Pop-up)
Hawkwind	Hall of the Mountain Grill	Hall of the Mountain Grill	RE: EMI	1974	0:17:04 (Pop-up)
Manfred Mann's Earth Band	Earth, the Circle, Part 1	Solar Fire	RE: Cohesion	1974	0:19:28 (Pop-up)
The Neutrons	Mermaid and Chips "Mermaid and Chips" by "The Neutrons"	Black Hole Star	RE: BGO	1974	0:23:17 (Pop-up)
CMU	Mystical Sounds "Mystical Sounds" by "CMU"	Open Spaces	RE: See for Miles	1971	0:28:06 (Pop-up)

Julian's Treatment	The Black Tower	A Time Before This	RE: Esoteric	1970	0:34:19 (Pop-up)
Gracious	Super Nova (excerpt) "Super Nova (excerpt)" by "Gracious"	This Is ... Gracious!	RE: BGO	1971	0:39:24 (Pop-up)
Egg	Long Piece No. 3 – Part 2 "Long Piece No. 3 – Part 2" by "Egg"	The Polite Force	Deram	1970	0:43:30 (Pop-up)
Locomotive	Nobody Asked You to Come	We Are Everything You See	RE: Eclectic	1970	0:51:07 (Pop-up)
Atomic Rooster	Winter "Winter" by "Atomic Rooster"	Atomic Rooster	RE: Castle	1970	0:54:22 (Pop-up)
Eyes of Blue	Extra Hour "Extra Hour" by "Eyes of Blue"	In Fields of Ardath	RE: Flawed Gems	1969	1:01:16 (Pop-up)
Skin Alley	All Alone "All Alone" by "Skin Alley"	Skin Alley	RE: Audio Archives	1970	1:03:53 (Pop-up)

Monument	Dog Man "Dog Man" by "Monument"	The First Monument	RE: Audio Archives	1971	1:14:41 (Pop-up)
Kindgom Come	Galactic Zoo "Galactic Zoo" by "Kindgom Come"	Galactic Zoo Dossier	Re: Voiceprint	1971	1:17:57 (Pop-up)
Yes	Heart of the Sunrise "Heart of the Sunrise" by "Yes"	Fragile	Atlantic	1972	1:20:30 (Pop-up)
Public Foot the Roman	Decline and Fall	Public Foot the Roman	Sovereign	1973	1:31:04 (Pop-up)
Steve Hackett	A Tower Struck Down	Voyage of the Acolyte	RE: Virgin	1975	1:39:38 (Pop-up)

Flash	The Time It Takes "The Time It Takes" by "Flash"	Flash	RE: One Way	1972	1:46:24 (Pop-up)
Pink Floyd	Burning Bridges "Burning Bridges" by "Pink Floyd"	Obscured by Clouds	Harvest	1972	1:51:56 (Pop-up)
Rare Bird	You Went Away "You Went Away" by "Rare Bird"	Rare Bird	RE: Esoteric	1969	1:55:20 (Pop-up)
Web	I Spider "I Spider" by "Web"	I Spider	RE: Esoteric	1970	2:00:00 (Pop-up)
Van Der Graaf Generator	Lemmings (Including Cog)	Pawn Hearts	RE: Virgin	1971	2:08:38 (Pop-up)

Samurai	Saving It Up for So Long "Saving It Up for So Long" by "Samurai"	Samurai	RE: Akarma	1971	2:21:54 (Pop-up)
Quatermass	Laughin' Tackle/Entropy (Reprise)	Quatermass	RE: Repertoire	1970	2:25:41 (Pop-up)
Samson	Sleep "Sleep" by "Samson"	Are You Samson?	Re: Flawed Gems	1969	2:36:54 (Pop-up)
Jody Grind	We've Had It "We've Had It" by "Jody Grind"	Far Canal	RE: Line	1970	2:39:16 (Pop-up)
Gryphon	Lament "Lament" by "Gryphon"	Red Queen to Gryphon Three	RE: Talking Elephant	1974	2:44:19 (Pop-up)

The Out-Theme	Gelbart: My Favorite Vacation [part of] + Die Trip Computer Die: Airborn [part of]				2:57:02 (Pop-up)

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Listener comments!
	♥ 11:54am Sean in Bristol UK: Good afternoon Tony, greetings fellow listeners, so looking forward to the show, a prog fan of biblical proportions!
	♥ 11:57am Tony Coulter: Greetings, Sean!
	♥ 11:59am Tony Coulter: It's nice to see Brits here, rooting for their (prog) home team.
	🥁 ♥ 12:01pm listener james from westwood: Good Tuesday, Tony and all!
	♥ 12:02pm Sean in Bristol UK: Listener James, greetings
	♥ 12:03pm Tony Coulter: Hey there, James!
	🥁 ♥ 12:04pm Yvang: Hey Tony, Sean, James ! Let's prog !
	♥ 12:04pm TDK60: "Hiya" Tony. Prog from ye olde green and pleasant land? I must break out my WFMU cape.
	♥ 12:05pm Tony Coulter: Holla hula holla, Yvang and TDK60!
	🥁 ♥ 12:06pm David (in London): Oh my lord it's Tarkus. I always remember seeing that preposterous cover in the racks of Scorpion Records and boggling that anyone would have let it through into production. Ha ha. Hello Tony and all assembled Coultards.
	12:06pm V Priceless: Woo! Tony! Hey!
	♥ 12:06pm Rich in Washington: Hello, Tony! Hi everybody!
	🥁 ♥ 12:06pm WR: Hello Tony. Tarkus!
	🥁 ♥ 12:06pm spodiodi: good morning, Tony! aloha, all
	12:06pm Sean in Bristol, UK: Oh my goodness what a start
	♥ 12:07pm TDK60: Yeah David, and you all don't even have armadillos there.
	♥ 12:09pm Tony Coulter: Greetings, greetings, David, VP, Rich, WR, and spodi!!!
	🥁 ♥ 12:10pm David (in London): TDK, Spod, WR, Rich, Sean, Yvang, James, V Priceless, salutations all. TDK - It was probably my first introduction to that species!
	🥁 ♥ 12:11pm spodiodi: howdy, David (in Progdon)
	♥ 12:14pm TDK60: My Official Prog History: a) I used to love ELP back then. b) Patti Smith, the Buzzcocks, Mission of Burma (etc.) later appeared on the horizon. c) I became embarrassed by my older tastes. d) A long time passed and I didn't care anymore. Plus, some of the music is quite...musical. e) I then turned down a good paying gig at being a prog cop. We're up to this century..
	♥ 12:18pm StringOFperils: Hi, okay, parked the dragon, left rainbow sword at goat-check, annnd ready to prog....greetings, Tony C and minions of the carrot wizard
	♥ 12:19pm Tony Coulter: Hey there, StringOFperils! (Can I call you String, for short?)
	♥ 12:19pm Sean in Bristol UK: Hey David, TDK, Spod, WR, Rich, Yvang, V Priceless and StringOFperils
	♥ 12:19pm StringOFperils: You may call me String for any reason you can come up with. :)
	♥ 12:20pm TDK60: Hi Bristol Sean.
	♥ 12:21pm Little Danny: hi Tony, hi proggies
	♥ 12:21pm Rich in Washington: This is my fave Hawkwind LP.
	12:22pm V Priceless: heya Sean
	♥ 12:22pm Tony Coulter: Hi there, Little Danny!
	♥ 12:23pm TDK60: This is a great pick Tony, "Circle." Part is from a classical piece. (Holst?)
	12:24pm V Priceless: hey TC - have you checked-out Brit progstress Rosalie Cunningham?
	12:25pm rw: Good Morning! TDK, I think a lot of prog fans turned to punk rock. I was one. I don't see the two as mutually exclusive. Both genres were pushing boundaries.
	♥ 12:26pm Tony Coulter: @ VP: Nope -- don't know of her. Guess I should give a listen!
	♥ 12:26pm StringOFperils: Eating mermaid is unsustainable.
	♥ 12:27pm Tony Coulter: Morning, rw! I agree (obviously!)
	12:27pm rw: Oh, and Prog Cop??
	12:29pm V Priceless: yeah, worth a listen. She's definitely caught in an early 70's psych/prog/stoner time-warp. Some good tunes, too!
	🥁 ♥ 12:31pm spodiodi: howdy, Sean
	♥ 12:32pm TDK60: Rw, thanks. Prog cops monitor all WFMU shows; if prog is on they come on to let everyone know it's not cool.
	🥁 ♥ 12:32pm spodiodi: i can attest. i wonder if they get paid well, TDK60 \\//
	🥁 ♥ 12:33pm Asheville Jon: howdy Tony and everyone else!
	🥁 ♥ 12:34pm chresti: Hi Tony and forks! Spotty connection today in the canyon.
	♥ 12:34pm Sean in Bristol UK: Splendid set, Tony
	♥ 12:34pm TDK60: Then there are prog guards. They wear capes and soothe folks' tempers down.
	♥ 12:34pm Webhamster Henry: I. M. O. K.
	🥁 ♥ 12:35pm spodiodi: I M O K :) howdy, Jon, chresti \\//
	♥ 12:35pm TDK60: Hi spodi \\// Oh, there's chresti westi.
	12:35pm V Priceless: @ TDK60 - do you know of any openings for ABBA cops? : )
	♥ 12:36pm TDK60: Hi V Priceless. Hee.
	🥁 ♥ 12:37pm spodiodi: i think the ABBA cop jobs are drying up, but there are still plenty of Billy Joel police positions
	🥁 ♥ 12:37pm spodiodi: "good!" olo
	♥ 12:37pm coelacanth∅: greetings greetings greetings Tony and proggles
	♥ 12:37pm Tony Coulter: Hiya, heya, hooyah, Asheville Jon, chresti, and Hamster Henry!!
	♥ 12:38pm Webhamster Henry: "We're keeping these Hall and Oates cassettes are here in case one of them becomes a serial killer" - S. M. Ken
	♥ 12:38pm Tony Coulter: Greets, coel!
	12:38pm V Priceless: haha..hey, if anyone here has never heard Rick Wakeman's R&RHOF Yes induction speech, you must seek out same on yootube. Hey Fish!
	♥ 12:38pm TDK60: Just looked at Wickedpea page for Manfred M. 'Circle' tune. It says Debussy.
	🥁 ♥ 12:39pm spodiodi: aloha, coel haha Webhamster Henry
	♥ 12:40pm coelacanth∅: hey Veep! just thinking about you, and the lack of you recently! hey spodi!
	🥁 ♥ 12:46pm David (in London): Damnit, I had to leave the room and missed The Enid. Hurrah for The Enid!
	♥ 12:47pm Mike Sin: My knowledge and collection of prog-rock are pretty slim, so today's show and the previous week have been quite enlightening.
	🥁 ♥ 12:47pm David (in London): TDK, and **** the Prog Cops!
	♥ 12:48pm Webhamster Henry: @Mike Sin here's a primer: www.youtube.com...
	♥ 12:48pm Tony Coulter: Hey, Mike! Glad you're here!
	♥ 12:48pm StringOFperils: Prog Cops rune my groon.
	♥ 12:48pm TDK60: Mike S. And some of the stuff played here was not so known in the States then, aside from the famed Big Ones.
	♥ 12:50pm TDK60: David in Londonium: I can only agree.
	♥ 12:52pm Mike Sin: Most of the prog I have in my collection is when it crosses over into stoner rock or such -- sort of the ven diagram where '70s Floyd, Hawkwind, early Crimson, and Captain Beyond intersect.
	♥ 12:53pm StringOFperils: Most of these things were available in Canada, but only as specially imported pressings from UK, Belgium, France, Germany, etc. They were expensive, but worth it for generally higher quality pressings, covers that were printed better, and packaging that wasn't tragically altered in some way. So, for me at least, prog (as it wasn't called then) has always been something you had to search out. It enjoyed being....arcane?
	♥ 12:56pm TDK60: String: Yes, good U.S. record shops then had import bins. You had to search. The bands that got big were in the regular bins on U.S. labels.
	♥ 12:56pm Mike Sin: Oh man! This is the same Locomotive that did "Rudi's In Love" about two years before this? Too much!
	12:57pm rw: SOFperils, we were just wondering that at work the other day; was prog called prog at the time? Wasn't it called progressive rock? (or prog)?
	♥ 12:57pm TDK60: String" Yes, "prog" not used then; "progressive rock" was, right? When did the shortened term appear?
	🥁 ♥ 12:58pm David (in London): TDK, I can look back and see why the 'Prog vs Punk' wars happened, and they were perhaps 'necessary' at the time. But with 40 plus years having now elapsed, I can't see why it's worth continuing to fight them now. Frankly, I would question the motivation of people who do. Jesus, it's not like that 40 plus years hasn't thrown up many more worthy targets in the meantime...
	♥ 1:00pm TDK60: David: Yeah; at the time the dialectic made sense. Who cares anymore? (I wonder what someone like, say, Peter Gabriel thinks about such.)
	♥ 1:02pm StringOFperils: @rw > It DOES derive from that term, 'progressive rock', and that is what music people (rock press) were using to talk about it...the question of what 'it' was exactly never seemed locked in to me. PROG, the term, in my memory, begins in the early 80s probably. I never really used it myself; I just think this is 'art music'. It's just outside of the official academy, made by a different kind of longhair.
	🥁 ♥ 1:06pm David (in London): TDK, Gabriel is an interesting figure from that whole era, isn't he? Came from 'high' prog, then managed to fit in with the New Wave ('Games Without Frontiers' etc), and then became a bona fide 80s pop star. An unusual trajectory, never losing 'credibility'.
	♥ 1:07pm Sean in Bristol UK: I was in my early teens during this period, listening to glam rock, Carpenters, Eagles before my my ears were enlightened to Genesis, Camel, Caravan and Utopia. This evening’s music has really expanded my knowledge
	♥ 1:07pm Tony Coulter: I'd say the term "progressive" was originally used for lots of bands that wouldn't be considered "prog rock" today. In the end, it is pretty nebulous just what prog rock/progressive rock is -- which doesn't stop me from playing it!
	1:08pm rw: Ha! String, I was about to say, I kind of remember calling this stuff Art Rock at the time. I guess it's been a long time. I don't really trust my memories anymore!
	♥ 1:08pm StringOFperils: I remember a really snooty guy, being condescending about prog, while he was bathing in his own vanity about the Mazzy Star he had on. He's was saying prog was ridiculous 'noodling', and I thought, well, what the hell is Mazzy Star, if not that?
	1:10pm rw: On one thing we can agree, it's all Psychedelic Fork.
	♥ 1:10pm Mike Sin: I was pretty young in the '70s, but the terms I remember being used were "progressive rock" and "art rock." "Prog" seemed to come later after the genre was being codified and comped. Just like the term "Glam rock" in the US -- I think that was strictly the UK term. In the New York area, the only term I remember hearing was "glitter rock"... or "glet-tuh rawk" if you were from Long Island.
	♥ 1:11pm TDK60: David at 1:06. Gabriel's 3rd solo "melting face" album was a revelation!
	1:13pm V Priceless: interesting thing is punks like Jello and Rotten adored Peter Hammill and VDGG. 'Pawn Hearts' was arguably a template for lots of so-called punks, etc.
	🥁 ♥ 1:16pm David (in London): TDK, yeah, that really opened my eyes, too. V Priceless, yes, Hammill got a free pass from everyone, didn't he? Like Roy Harper, pretty much everyone agreed he was good, no matter their 'tribe'.
	♥ 1:17pm StringOFperils: I half-believe half of everything that Jello B says, and that's partly why I love the guy.
	♥ 1:20pm TDK60: V Priceless: yeah Pawn Hearts, an odd one. David, some of the later Hammill seems to have gone in a similar trajectory as Gabriel musically, if less commercial. (Thinking of an album like 'In a Foreign Town' -1988.)
	♥ 1:21pm StringOFperils: Such a cool voice. AB.
	1:23pm V Priceless: Good point, David. PH may be his own genre LOL. I recently read somewhere that Bowie was heavy into "Chameleon in the Shadow of the Night" around the time he was preparing 'Station to Station'.
	♥ 1:23pm TDK60: This 'Galactic' album with Arthur Brown & K.C. is crazy too.
	♥ 1:24pm Sean in Bristol UK: Heart of the Sunrise, prog at it’s most majestic
	♥ 1:25pm Rich in Washington: I recall this song as teenager being used as the theme song for a Wiccan-themed talk radio show that would come on at 5am on KBOO.
	♥ 1:26pm TDK60: Rich: A teen listening to KBOO at 5 AM! Ahem.
	🥁 ♥ 1:26pm David (in London): Brothers and Sisters, I think we have reach our verdict: Prog is good. So sayeth the Council.
	♥ 1:27pm StringOFperils: I still like this. Roger Dean, not so much. But this is alright.
	♥ 1:28pm HollyRT: Hi, Prog Fans!! Late but made it
	♥ 1:29pm Tony Coulter: Hey, hey, Holly!
	♥ 1:29pm TDK60: This 'Sunrise' is delightful. I jest not.
	♥ 1:30pm StringOFperils: I like Chris Squire's bass work; he reminds me of Japan's Mick Karn who showed up later on.
	1:31pm rw: I have a pile of VDGG and PH records, but no Yes. I DO like this song though. Not sure how I feel about Roger Dean from this side of history. Seems perfect for what it was.
	♥ 1:32pm RevWaldo: Yes - the choice of hopeful super scientists everwhere - www.youtube.com...
	1:32pm rw: To reiterate (or agree with) SoP
	♥ 1:33pm Tony Coulter: Ahoy, REvWaldo!
	♥ 1:33pm coelacanth∅: did Roger Dean have anything to do with yes besides album art? i've never known of any musical connection.
	🥁 ♥ 1:34pm David (in London): String, glad you bought up Mick Karn. What an amazing, distinctive musician, who doesn't often get his rightful dues.
	♥ 1:34pm Tony Coulter: @ coel: Nope -- he just did the covers (and covers for plenty of other bands too, of course).
	♥ 1:35pm HollyRT: Oh hey, those of you who were around then (I was, but was a little kid, b. late 60s): what WAS prog called then? "Classical rock" or some such?
	1:36pm rw: Haha, Holly, scroll up!
	♥ 1:36pm coelacanth∅: progressive rock>prog rock>prog.
	1:36pm V Priceless: I was surprised to learn that Dean's biggest artistic influence was the 60's-era Fillmore / West Coast poster artists.
	♥ 1:36pm HollyRT: Nvm just scrolled back through the discussion!!
	♥ 1:37pm coelacanth∅: i was in the shower for that discussion.
	♥ 1:37pm TDK60: Holly, I think some did call it classical rock, or art rock too.
	♥ 1:38pm StringOFperils: Most musical changes from say 1965 to 1975 were SO rapid, and so 'progressive', I don't recall the fledgling rock press having much genuine success keeping up with it. Most of these harder definitions gain traction after more history accrues.
	♥ 1:38pm TDK60: V Priceless, I'm not so surprised to hear Dean was influenced by the S.F. artists.
	1:40pm rw: This is too much fun for me. I need to refocus on work. Probably check back in later... please carry on carrying on.
	♥ 1:40pm coelacanth∅: somebody called it progressive rock and it stuck. -same as with the far more absurd "new wave" and even more absurd "post punk". i mean, it does mean something.
	♥ 1:40pm Tony Coulter: See you, rw!
	1:40pm V Priceless: @ TDK60 - yeah, it does make perfect sense, actually
	♥ 1:41pm HollyRT: As I have gotten m ore into prof, esp where it crosses over into RIO territory and avant stuff like Henry Cow, I have come to the conclusion that there's a straight through-line to a lot of post-punk/new wave.
	♥ 1:41pm HollyRT: prof = prog, obv.
	1:42pm V Priceless: Woo! Love this Hackett!
	♥ 1:43pm Tony Coulter: @ Holly: Absolutely agree. Just as there is a straight through-line running from psych into prog.
	♥ 1:44pm coelacanth∅: i remember the term "classical rock". that makes more sense than "progressive rock", because {StringO @1.38} ...art rock? even more broad!
	1:44pm OED: progressive rock n. Music. any of various innovative forms of rock music, esp. associated with the late 1960s and 1970s, typically featuring intricate (often classically influenced) musical motifs, prominent use of electronic instrumentation, extended compositions, self-consciously intellectual or poetic lyrics, and displays of musical virtuosity. [1968 Chicago Tribune 28 Apr. x. 10/4 Billboard magazine calls it ‘progressive rock programming’. Record World calls it ‘alternative radio’.] 1968 N.Y. Times 4 Aug. d20/1 Much of what we cherished in progressive rock is musically advanced but emotionally barren. The indulgence of a new, cerebral audience has endangered that raw vitality which was once a hallmark of the rock experience. 1975 New Yorker 24 Mar. 6 Two progressive-rock bands..share the stage. 1993 Network June 9/2 Progressive rock and supergroup are labels that Asia's Geoff Downes can do without. 2000 M. Barrowcliffe Girlfriend 44 xii. 335 Emily, whose scientist friends played Dungeons and Dragons and would try to tell you how clever the lyrics were on progressive rock albums.
	♥ 1:45pm HollyRT: And then there's "space rock" which I guess is...Hawkwind? Pink Floyd?
	♥ 1:47pm TDK60: It was progressive in the sense of mixing classical, jazz, rock, styles, new at the time.
	♥ 1:47pm coelacanth∅: wow, i did not know Steve Hackett went there! far better than genesis, in my so very humble and unpopular opinion!
	♥ 1:48pm StringOFperils: Yay! Flash! Great band.
	♥ 1:49pm coelacanth∅: TDK, true; but still it's a very general term, almost as meaningless as "alternative". (well, maybe not as profoundly stupid)
	♥ 1:52pm coelacanth∅: OED that's all the views from the outside; from people who don't get it. broad generalizations, like the genre label itself. nytimes person wasn't listening. other person was projecting maybe?
	🥁 ♥ 1:53pm David (in London): And then there was... Zorch, the duck-billed platypus of the Prog era.
	♥ 1:56pm StringOFperils: The categories are just signifiers, sign-posts, that make a conversation possible. Or a dispute. They are of no use to the music itself, and often filter its reception so much that all that language just f***s it up.
	♥ 1:56pm coelacanth∅: pink floyd was not considered progressive rock in the 70s, and commonly still not. was it called that in the 60s?
	♥ 1:57pm Tony Coulter: @ Holly: Yeah, Hawkwind and '70s Floyd get called space rock .. but I'm bending "the rules" and sticking them in anyway.
	♥ 1:57pm TDK60: coel: I thought P.F. was considered prog. I did.
	♥ 1:58pm Rich in Washington: This is the one Floyd album I could never warm to. It's actually a good one to pigeonhole as a prog record, though.
	♥ 1:58pm Tony Coulter: @ Rich: Yep, I tried to find a (good) example of them at their "proggiest."
	♥ 2:00pm Rich in Washington: i love Pink Floyd in that era. No idea why that album just doesn't quite do it for me. Maybe too much direction from Barbet Schroeder?
	♥ 2:00pm TDK60: String: right, labels are just a shorthand to help, maybe. I could see Pink F. as psych, prog and space, as overlapping.
	♥ 2:01pm coelacanth∅: TDK it makes sense too, really -but 'floyd's not "intellectual" in the way that the new york times idiot was referring to. mostly used 4 or 6 beats/measure, and the lyrics were usually more personal than philosophical. we called it "space rock"
	♥ 2:02pm coelacanth∅: ...but that's not to imply any less Brilliance. pink floyd was Brilliant.
	♥ 2:04pm TDK60: Question: Were there any prog bands /without/ organs?
	🥁 ♥ 2:04pm David (in London): Coela, you've touched on something that - certainly on this side of the pond - was quite important, in that there was a not inconsiderable element of class animus surrounding Prog.
	♥ 2:06pm Tony Coulter: @ DK60: Yes -- but I love the organ, so you're getting plenty of organ whether you like it or not!
	2:06pm rw: Hey, sorry, I can't help myself. Sitting here thinking about another conversation we've been having at work. Where did the upper register singing start? Robert Plant? We have a running joke about how Journey picked their singer.
	♥ 2:07pm TDK60: Tony, plenty of organ is alright with me.
	♥ 2:07pm coelacanth∅: i think a lot of journalists/critics who were too narrow-minded (simple-minded?!) to understand "prog" listened to a song by asia and a song by rush and maybe one of the more overblown yessongs and decided they had enough to write an article about it.
	♥ 2:07pm Tony Coulter: I will not make a joke.
	2:08pm rw: TC, you just did.
	♥ 2:08pm Tony Coulter: Oops.
	🥁 ♥ 2:09pm David (in London): Prog is full of magnificent organs. Fnarr, fnarr. (I'm crass enough to do it for you, Tony).
	🥁 ♥ 2:09pm spodiodi: :)
	2:11pm V Priceless: oh hell yes
	🥁 ♥ 2:12pm David (in London): V Priceless, cut loose!
	2:12pm V Priceless: Prog meets Punk at Psych's House (With No Door)!
	♥ 2:13pm Rich in Washington: Love VDGG! Was waiting for this!
	2:13pm rw: This song reminds me of riding around stoned on LSD in the back of a Pinto afraid for my life but kind of loving it.
	♥ 2:14pm coelacanth∅: David yes here too, at least in high school! the few "prog" kids had long hair and were generally not outgoing or partygoers or athletes and a lot of other kids thought they were snobs. it's common in society in general. "intellectuals" sometimes must dummy down their communication to be accepted by those who would ostracize them for being different.
	2:14pm V Priceless: @ rw: horse or car? : )
	♥ 2:14pm coelacanth∅: ...i don't know if that's exactly what you mean!
	🥁 ♥ 2:14pm David (in London): rw, oh no! The Pinto was the one prone into bursting into flames if I recall rightly? That can't have mixed well with acid.
	2:14pm rw: VP, Psychedelic Ford
	♥ 2:16pm StringOFperils: @rw > You should listen to Small Faces' You Need Loving' from 1966. I think you'll hear Robert Plant. Except....he's not on the radar yet. www.youtube.com...
	♥ 2:16pm coelacanth∅: i was thinking the horse! ...the car? how do you stay on the back of a pinto? it's like a sliding board
	♥ 2:21pm TDK60: Been thinking of those poor prog roadies, having to carry all that gear aside from guitars and amps. Organs, gongs, moogs, capes.
	♥ 2:22pm Tony Coulter: @ TDK60: And the less successful prog bands had to carry all that stuff themselves.
	♥ 2:22pm Little Danny: haha TDK, totally
	🥁 ♥ 2:24pm David (in London): Being a cape roadie was a serious business... But Keith Levene from PiL worked as a roadie for Yes, showing again that the Prog / Punk Year Zero distinction was perhaps a little more blurred in real life than people made it seem at the time.
	🥁 ♥ 2:25pm Julie: Rare Bird!
	🥁 ♥ 2:26pm WR: The quotes OED copied and various other comments triggered me to think back about the marketing label "prog rock" and I truly don't remember when the term got established. I graduated HS in '69 and worked from '69 to '75 in record stores. So I was immersed in music magazines and label marketing. I was enthusiastic fan of Soft Machine, Keith Emerson, Gong, Kevin Ayers, early Pink Floyd, early King Crimson, Keith Tippett, Chris MacGregor, which show me leaning more to the avant jazz infused rock. Early Genesis and Van Der Graaf I added to my collection as well. Friends were big fans of Yes and Strawbs and and Gentle Giant and Atomic Rooster which I tolerated in small doses. I don't remember when prog became a term but vaguely recalls by mid-70s when next generation bands like Rush were finding an audience that the term was being used in marketing. I remembered that all issues of Trouser Press magazine are now digitized online: trouserpress.com They started in 1974. Searching in the first two issues, which feature King Crimson, Genesis; the only mention of "progressive rock" was to describe the evolution of the Yardbirds beyond the blues infused rock of John Mayall, et al.
	♥ 2:26pm TDK60: David, I recall seeing San Fran hardcore band Dirty Rotten Imbeciles (D.R.I.) in maybe '83? The singer had a Pink Floyd T-shirt on. Shock value at that point in time. Hee.
	♥ 2:26pm Tony Coulter: Hey, Julie! Julie's show today will be all rare birds! (It'll be bird-themed.)
	2:32pm OED: Google Ngram Viewer shows occurrences of the ngram prog rock ...beginning around 1968. https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=prog+rock&year_start=1950&year_end=2019&corpus=26&smoothing=3#
	🥁 ♥ 2:32pm David (in London): I remember Andy Partridge of XTC saying that they had discussed doing another spoof album as The Dukes of Stratosphere as they moved on into the 70s, either as The Stratosphere Gang (glam) or as a Prog band. Shame they never made that a reality,
	🥁 ♥ 2:33pm Julie: drum solo!
	♥ 2:34pm Tony Coulter: Today's first, I think.
	🥁 ♥ 2:35pm David (in London): Also: hello Julie!
	♥ 2:36pm Rich in Washington: I've always loved and still champion the term Art Rock. It can encompass Prog, Canterbury, experimental music, Fusion, Kraut, etc
	2:37pm V Priceless: @ David - that would have been a blast, I'm sure. I see Terry Chambers has picked up the XTC flag as 'EXTC'. Coming to the states next year.
	♥ 2:37pm coelacanth∅: i really have a tough time with labels in general. i use air quotes a lot when i talk about music
	2:38pm V Priceless: @ coel - I'm with you. Almost everything connects, at some point.
	♥ 2:40pm TDK60: Labels help sometimes. At the record shop. Like, you don't want Van Der Graaf Generator lost in the Rockabilly section, eh?
	♥ 2:45pm coelacanth∅: i found out one day that there were many sub-divisions of heavy metal (now just metal) it took years to wrap my head around what was what! it all comes down to one person describing some music as something then the masses latch onto it and that's what it's called now. ...i still don't know what "emo" is; and "screamo" is apparently something other than what sounds like screamo to me!
	♥ 2:46pm coelacanth∅: TDK for sure. 'just i, personally, have trouble designating something as one thing, when it's really so many things.
	🥁 ♥ 2:46pm David (in London): And then you have the conundrum of The Stranglers. A Punk band, rejected by some other Punks, who had one of the greatest ever Prog organ players essential to their sound. Still makes absolutely no sense today. Utterly glorious they were (/ are).
	🥁 ♥ 2:49pm David (in London): Coela, joke I heard the other day... What's the difference between Goth and Emo? Goths have no time to cry. (Apologies if you're not a Sisters of Mercy fan, there).
	♥ 2:50pm coelacanth∅: well yeah! and dead kennedys playing jazz impeccably, incorporating it into a hardcore punk song with grace!
	🥁 ♥ 2:52pm Julie: I will be here, shortly wfmu.org...
	2:52pm V Priceless: all hail the meninblack. RIP Dave Greenfield. Tragic loss.
	♥ 2:53pm coelacanth∅: i guess one does have to both listen to the music and understand the labeling to understand that!
	♥ 2:53pm TDK60: coel, "emo" was originally a subgenre of '80s hardcore punk. Probably changed over years but I don't know the later uses.
	♥ 2:53pm coelacanth∅: (i do quite like that one sisters of mercy song. the big hit)
	🥁 ♥ 2:55pm spodiodi: thanks, Tony!
	2:55pm V Priceless: I noticed labels did not prevent JJ Cale albums from being filed in the John Cale bin at the long-defunct Tower Records
	🥁 ♥ 2:56pm David (in London): Thanks Tony, great part 2 show today. Really enjoyed it. And the Tarkus cover was a ridiculous bonus. V Priceless, stands to salute Mr Greenfield
	♥ 2:56pm coelacanth∅: TDK and obviously short for "emotional" but what does that mean in terms of music? i'm told weezer is or was emo. i just hear it as pop music (another stupid genre name!) and certainly far less emotional, emotive, sad, etc than tons of other music not called emo! !!!
	♥ 2:57pm TDK60: Coel: Weezer? Don't know it. I think the earliest emo mighta been Minor Threat or Fugazi. [?]
	2:58pm rw: THXTC!!! Fantastic.
	🥁 ♥ 2:58pm listener james from westwood: Been wading thru both editing and a leak from my dishwasher but listening in rapture all the while—thanks, Tony!
	🥁 ♥ 2:59pm Yvang: Thanks Tony for the great Special!
	♥ 2:59pm TDK60: Thanks Tony. Great choices today. Will check out Part I soon!...
	♥ 2:59pm coelacanth∅: minor threat is called emo? at the time it was called "punk"!
	♥ 2:59pm HollyRT: Great show, Tony!!
	♥ 2:59pm Tony Coulter: Thanks, everyone!! See you next week!
	2:59pm V Priceless: thanks for a fab show, Tony! When's Part III? @ David: cheers! good to ketchup with you, too, coelacanth! Prog on, gang! rw: LOL THXTC!
	♥ 3:00pm Rich in Washington: Thanks, Tony! Looking forward to your singles show next week!
	♥ 3:00pm coelacanth∅: part 3 next week?! Thanks Tony! tchau y'all
	♥ 3:00pm TDK60: coel "emo" within a h/c '80s milieu. Most of the bands were political up to that point.
	♥ 3:00pm coelacanth∅: great to see ya 'gin Veep!
	🥁 ♥ 3:01pm WR: Thank you Tony! Whatever the label the selections you played for us have a definite commonality. Onward.
	♥ 3:01pm StringOFperils: Thank you!!
	♥ 3:02pm coelacanth∅: TDK right on. emo in hindsight. ...by some people's estimation! i will not be calling it that
	♥ 3:03pm TDK60: No coel, it was called that at the time, within a small h/c scene. Before "alternative" rock came along.
	🥁 ♥ 2:18pm Nick S.: Great show, Tony! Catching up over here.

Tony Coulter: Playlist from October 12, 2021

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